New news on the possible fate of landbots

Saying LL uses bots so we should be allowed to isnt quite a correct analogy. Lindens have God Functions, we dont, that doesnt make them hypocrites, landbots in particular have caused thier amount of chaos well from accidental lose of land undue strain on LL servers, to putting uncounted hundreds of "land barons" out of business, (economic explotiation)and have done nothing good for SL itself. No im not going to argue that point with any bot runner since they see with jaded glasses, human nature makes them do it for greed. but comparing quality control bots to landbots is like comparing onions to the moon.. not alot in common

I just found a toaster for sale at:

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Samoa/95/207/81

It's in a railway carriage with a moving texture outside so I guess, technically, it's mobile... does that count?

Broccoli

Anyone ever in need to dump land fast but want some L but don't want to wait for weeks?
Do what I do take the bots money. Mark the land the lowest within seconds the bots come.

Nah. Came across as good old vigilantism to me.

yah and if your willing to wait 5 more seconds, a real person that will talk with you if you so like will buy it too, that 5 second wait doesnt justify the greifing, and it is griefing landbots have inadvertently caused

I agree bots are a blight. I'm just saying there will never be an outright ban. I certainly hope LL enforces some kind of guideline on ethical use. However, Given LL's track history for becoming more and more hands-off concerning legal and ethical issues, I fear even that will never happen. More and more, the LL is stepping back and telling residents to solve their own issues, which in some ways is fine, but in many ways not, as the tools needed to solve many of those issues rests in the hands of LL, the very people not willing to use them. So don't think I approve of landstealing bots, I don't. I'm just being pragmatic. They are here, and not going anywhere.

Truth is, you don't really need a complicated TECHNICAL solution. I have a 4 point plan that would almost certainly end the vast majority of botting and make creating new bots too economically risky to attempt and try out in world.

Step #1: CAPTCHA

Step #2: Set default to SPECIFIC USER, not ANYONE in the Land Sales form.

Step #3: Make Botting a TOS VIOLATION with its own category in ABUSE REPORTING. This includes investingating these abuse reports like any other abuse report, and make the penalty for botting include some sort of land (or the lindens from the sale of any land) confiscation on any land proven to have been purchased by a bot. Multiple abuses by the same botmaster should result in permabanning by LL, with total asset confiscation.

Step #4: Let nature take its course. Every human realtor (or land barron, if you prefer that term), will be bot hunting fromt he word go, and teaching non-realtors who get their land stolen by a bot, to file abuse reports on the bots or group of bots that stole their land.

There are enough folks in SL who are realtors, partners & pals of realtors, previous victims of bots, partners and pals of previous victims of bots, and just plain old good samaritans, that LL would be rid of all but a infantecimal number of bots within 90 days of implementing this plan, and the few that would remain would have too little economic insentive, and too much risk, to continue improving on their bots. The only ones that would aren't in it for the money, and they're more akin to griefers than botmasters. You don't shut down all of SL because you can't permanently stop griefers, but you make an honest attempt to stop their activities and punish them accordingly.

The answers are not to be found in technical ability but in human nature, ourselves, not our stars.

Wow.

QFT.

How are we going to get rid of the scannerbots aka "ESC bots" . They are just as offensive as the landbots.

How is selling way below market to a bot whose owner can resell for a profit taking the bot's money?

If you ever need to dump land fast, set it to L$0.1 below the lowest price on the first page of land sales search. So if it is a base of L$7.2 a meter, like it is now, set it for L$7.1 a meter.

That way you are still going to sell it within an hour, but a human will get it, not a bot, and you will maximize your sale price.

I still think as a seller have to click yes to the sale would be the easyest and fastest to do

but what about that plot you want to buy where the owner hasn't logged in in two months?

The few remaining land brokers in SL spend enough time online. this would add hours of labor to an already very unprofitable vocation.

Yep we should be instead bringing in steps to encourage more land brokers, we just don't have enough of them or land to sell

they once supported the failing economy. But I know...an easy target eh?

Well I agree they are needed, but as in RL realestate it's not like there's ever a shortage of agents.
And I doubt they really supported the economy anymore than other content creators, sure more money flows through them, but also more money flows right back out of SL into RL bank accounts through them too

These days every older member who sells off and leaves is another blow to SL. Seeing a lot of them doing that lately. A heck of a lot. But you are right, they are not all brokers. They sold off earlier this year when it became clear LL was going to let the bot runners continue full throttle. A few remaining ones bought estates and became landlords. My original point was that being a broker is time consuming biz, that's all.

Agreed.

Actually, the default is "--select one--" You have to choose either anyone or a specific user, but 'anyone' is not the default. This is a fallacy. And it only shows that people who are doing 1L transfers to friends are just being lazy, and do not comprehend that ANYONE really means ANYONE. There is no point to a 1L transaction when you can do it for 0.


I am not one to impede automated progress, so I will actually disagree. I have no problems with bots in and of themselves. Especially since most botmasters will return known mistakes. It is just the few unscrupulous ones that are the problem. But the bigger problem is that people need to stop being in a fog when making important transactions like these. Education and awareness is the only thing that stops these kinds of mistakes. A little compassion on the part of bot runners would be nice, but truthfully, there is no one to blame but yourself if you put land up for sale to ANYONE for 1L. Period. There is no excuse for it. People need to think and take some responsibility for their own actions. We can't move your brain cells for you.

My problems not so much with the use of bot to buy land but the fact so many people are running so many of them they are bogging SL down with lag. I can get 3 or 4 bots per hour appear and dissappear on my land and there's isn't even any land for sale in my sim.
Some of these guys are running 50-100 bots, SL is supposed to be a creation platform not a contest to see who can run the most alts. Between the landbots, searchbots and camping bots, how many are too many?
Graveyard shift numbers have climbed from 1/3 to 2/3 of day numbers, and this is due mainly to all the 24/7 bots in world.
Put a visitor logging sytem out for a day or 2 and just watch how many visitors there are to the sim that tp out again straight away before you can even see them.

and i thought we had moved past that...
this is the second time this week somebody has used a false strawman accusation against me. i mentioned 'banlines and 16m adplots' because they are both things that most people hate, yet you defend. do you deny that you defend peoples right to adcut sims and erect banlines on scattered primland? dont you point out that these are not violations of the tos and are thus legitimate activity, and that we must respect peoples rights to engage in that activity?
so where is the strawman? at what point did i attribute an opinion to you that you have not shared yourself on numerous occasions?
i just find it strange that you take a fanatical stand on banlines and adcutters, yet want to ban landbots from the grid.
and its very disingenuous to then claim a bot has no rights while failing to address any rights that the _person_ running the bot may have under the tos. thus, 'banlines arent citizens, nor are 16m adplots'. but that hasnt stopped you from enshrining their right to exist, has it?

so bitter

Well said except for Step #3 which assumes that LL thinks bots are a problem - which isn't at all clear - or that they are interested in enforcing such a ban. Given LL's history of enforcement, unless you are conducting illicit or "bad press" activities, they aren't much interested. They have been particularly adamant about their affirmative distintrest in "customer to customer disputes".

This is a good plan, except for the fact that the "police" don't seem to care, nor have dozens of threads on the matter had any visible effect.

Camping bots are not the same as landbots. This thread is about landbots. A land bot runner need only run one or maybe 2 at a time because of the speed in which transactions are completed. Camping bots are the ones causing serious lag. Let's get that one straight.

And IIRC, abuse of resources is an AR-able offense already, so theoretically, that can be taken care of.

:rolls eyes:
I did not say ban them, I think they should be restricted, so we don't end up in a spraling arms race between bot owners. perhaps one bot per person, this bull crap about infinate numbers of bots is choking SL performance for the sake of pure greed.
I hope you can convince your oppositions Landbots to buy your land because thaere aren't going to be reall residents around soon to buy anything.

little lego man i was referring to mr chris norse, and he expressed a desire to 'get rid of' landbots.

Firstly, by default I mean the first option listed. Anyone is the first, probably because of it being alphabetical, but placing it second, making it the one you have to scroll down farther for, would likely help stop accidents from people in a fog, as you put it.

As for your desire not to impede automated progress, in SL, disincentivising the creation of bots, who, for the most part, hand over large profits to a small few, in industries and activities where this same money used to be more evenly distributed and based on individual merit, not advanced technical skill and ability to buy a faster computer. I've said it before, I'll say it again, bots allow for a transition from a purely competative market structure into an oligarchic market structures, where fewer and few indivividuals hold more and more of the wealth and power.

For many, SL is supposed to be a refuge, a place where dreams can happen, compared to RL where barriers are constantly put up by the haves to keep the have nots struggling and never succeeding. We're all in perfect health here. We're all cute. We can all get a nice piece of land and build a dream home. We can all start a business and grow that business based on our ability in a FAIR market. Before you go claiming 'SL is not a game', go look at the website's main page. Doesn't show simply drawn bots taking over camping chairs, so that real noobs can't get any camping money, does it? It shows attractive avatars living their dreams, romance, shopping, clubbing, ALL wish fulfillment. That is the SL image, and still a big draw for residence. If I wanted to live in a world where a hand full of folks held most of the wealth, while those who put time and effort to do so make a pittance and can't afford very much, I spend my free time in RL. Yes, gambling bans and VAT did a number on alot of residence, but read the forums. There is also a general malaize about quality of Second Life, and how it's decreasing.

LL is risking its image as a dream factory, because all Oligarcies only serve the dreams of a select few, and landbots and camping bots and copybots are just the beginning. There are many websites with housing floorplans. My builder in SL is building me a new home with floorplans I got on the internet. What happens if someone finds a way to program a bot to do the same build from scanned floorplans, then scans in 1000 plans. All the buyer has to do is pick textures and a few other add ons, and the bot builds away happily and sells for a set price. There goes another prominent SL industry. Same thing with garden plans and landscapers. Then another industry and another. There are those that say that such SL professions are is too complicated to create bots and third party programs for, but when there is enough profit to be made, alot of complicated things suddenly become reality. That's human nature. That's good when you're in RL and those dream seekers that do the buying can't push away from the keyboard and go watch a tv show or play a video game. SL can't afford to become an Oligarchy, not until it is more a tool of RL business (which it has great potential for) then a dream factory.