Rant on Levels of Immersion

This is really just a rant. I've been online for ten or 15 years--it's so long that I don't remember--and I've seen all kinds of stuff. So I ought to know better.

If you've got a close relationship with somebody, and you leave them an IM--in-world in SL or in one of the instant messenger services--wouldn't you expect them to be on the lookout for those kinds of messages from you and respond in some way? What does it say when the person just logs out with your message sitting there, without responding?

To me, it's like you're living together and you see your partner in the same room and you say, "Hey. What's happening?" and they walk out of the room and ignore you.

This is a real, close relationship. Mutual promises have been made. Deep expressions of affection have been mutually communicated. And yet, as often as not, if I don't aggressively demand attention, I get no response. Then I'll get some excuse and, "hopefully we'll connect tomorrow."

I'm sure other people don't see it that way, and that's why this is a rant. But to me it feels like there just isn't much interest there.

Maybe I should just read the writing on the wall and get started packing my bags.

Esquievel, I'm sorry that you are experiencing this. It's hard to know what to say, without knowing much more than you could (or should) possibly communicate here, but it does sound as though the thread title hits the nail on the head: to me, this sounds as though it is about "levels of immersion," and the degree to which two friends/partners are not approaching the relationship in the same way. That's not to excuse the rudeness of leaving IMs from someone with whom you are close unanswered: incivility is always incivility.

As for packing your bags . . . I guess the question has to be, how much are you still getting out of it? Is it still worth it for you?

There's no rulebook for matters of the heart.

Maybe they're trying to tell you something, maybe they didn't get your IM, or didn't see it.

On more than one occasion I've had IMs sent while I was online not delivered until the next time I login. Also, if you have so many IM sessions going, eventually new ones are hidden in the communication window.

If the relationship is as close as it sounds, it may be a technical issue, not a personal one. SL's IM technology is not entirely reliable.

It's hard to say wat you should expect in a relationship. Men seem to be most committed in sl and women less so. hal is a brilliant communicator and never leaves without sending me a group note or an IM to make me smile. I'm almost as good, but might appear less committed since I do tend to take in IMs and then fail to reply. I may not have much time to type a long note. It's just I get so many emails in real that I have to be selective about which ones I answer - and I trust no one is offended. This afternoon I had 19 emails in one 10 minute period as I was making a cup of coffee. Obviously I cant reply to all. SL is similar.

I also have lovers and affaires that I dont necesarily wish him to discover so I may not reply to a note he has sent if its convenient for me to do so. Sometimes he spots me if I forget to remove tick in online notice and then I cringe with shame. But I still do it.

What I mean to say is give your partner a chance to explain. I allways say to Hal to NOT obsess and worry over me but then I worry over him. SL is an awkward environment for relationships - we'll never lose our real anonymity but we have to trust our partner in this world also. It's tough. But all relationships are tough in one way or another.

No response to an IM? Over-emotional over-reaction? It's not unknown here. I can think of any number of entirely acceptable reasons for your friend to disappear, and you don't seem to have taken even the first step in investigating what the reason might be: to ask them!

Your post is not entirely clear about whether this is a one off or a repeated phenomenon though; if the latter, and you are getting no coherent explanation, why are you wasting your time?

Pep (There are plenty more fish in the sea.)

Without hearing both sides of the story, it is difficult to make any sense of this. I find myself in agreement with Pep - all sorts of things could have happened.

Alot depends on how long you've been together and how often this happens. Do you know they're receiving your IMs and just ignoring them? Does it happen repeatedlyl or rarely? Have you told your partner how you feel when this happens? If they are getting the IMs, and you've told them how you feel when you get no response, and they continue to ignore the IMs AND your feelings...well, I agree with whoever said you need to decide if it's worth being in the relationship.

It's definitely tough to guess the motivation here because there's a lot of possibilities.

Personally....I look for patterns in behavior of people (I don't have any sort of serious connections in SL but I certainly do have some great friends) Most of the people I communicate with here....are really good about following up on an IM if say, we were in mid chat and they crashed.....or I crashed.......There's always a thread of continuity to mutual conversations. So...even delays of a days at a time....will reveal an IM when I log back in, that puts closure on the previous chat.....or responds to something I may have said. This is more common then not.......but again, I'm talking about just pals, even aquaintances.....not intimate relationships.

On the flip side......I have come across a few folks (2 come to mind right away) that are just plane scatter brained, and even tho I consider them friends, I've given up on expecting them to be any good at responding to IM's when re-logging. Either it's a case of total air headedness (in one such case, this person was new and it took them forever to get a good handle on the workings of SL) or just certain hyper personalities types that have so much going on around them.....they fail to notice details. (my boss IRL is a fine example of this lol)

One could argue that closing an IM can't happen by mistake because the mere fact that we have to close them, suggest we know they are there to begin with......and that's likely true 99% of the time. But if an IM window has tons of messeges...it's very easy to close the wrong chat session by mistake. On the other hand.....I do base my observations on patterns......if a person's modus opperendum suddenly alters, even ever so slightly....there's a reason..... I rely on my gut....IRL and in SL....so I don't get too ruffled when people don't meet my expectations because usually I already know what not to expect. I'd confront your friend on this point.....don't frazzle your brain with over-thinking the issue....because that will do nothing except increase your distress. Confront the matter.....explain your concerns....and then pay very very close attention to this persons reaction. That's gonna tell you everything you need to know.

Often I will be in an IM with friends, sometimes good friends. After a couple of exchanges, one of us will fall silent.

It just seems to be the standard etiquette for IM conversations. I thought it was strange at first, but I've gotten used to it, and even do it myself.

I think that maybe it's that people see IM as a secondary activity. If local chat gets busier, or you are having to move or tp or build or edit or do anything in your immediate vicinity, IMs get put on "hold" or forgotten.

This is why, if I want to really interact closely with someone, I will try to do so face to face.

It is also possible your friend is not actually online and that their AV is mistakenly showing as online. This happens far more often than folks think. Sometimes your IM will kick them offline which will cause you to get a "So and So is not online" message that can LOOK like they logged out to avoid answering you but in fact they were not really online (as in sitting at the computer) to begin with.

Not sure if I completely agree, Jig. I always thought the stereotype was the other way around. Stereotypes and anecdotal evidence aside, I don't think there is anyway to conclude who tends to be the most committed in SL. The fairest conclusion in my opinion is to take each person on their own merits.

I always give someone I'm IMing the benefit of the doubt when it comes to unanswered IMs. IMs get lost, garbled, or delivered hours later. Often. People show up online or offline when they aren't.

If it's someone you truly care about, and you think they care about you, why not simply send a second IM? Try and keep in mind that it's not like talking on the phone, or even in a messenger service. IMs can be *very* unreliable, and I would never rush to judgement based soley on that.

I hope that it was just a fluke, and things go on as always, even better, for you and your friend.

this. and you are much more tolerant than i. i would have confronted that issue early on, because it will probably never change, and would want to know that the moment i recognized it. please respect yourself and protect your dignity. make no more moves for such a selfishly self-absorbed person. just walk. i'm sorry. very sucky. good luck.

Agree with 3Ring, but I'd be sure I made a point of discussing it first. To let them know it's totally not acceptable to 'hopefully hook up tomorrow' and not responding to IM's. Sure there are plenty reasons it could happen, as others have pointed out, but if it's putting your red flags up and you are becoming unhappy, then time to deal with it, definitely peaceful confrontation first, to let them know that the relationship is not up to your standards and it either has to change/improve or you'll have to move on. You do have the right to have some standards you know.

For the sake of being fair, do talk to them about it first. If you care about them, they deserve that much from you. If it's time to move on, is just as easy to go peacefully and with good memories, as it is to go rough, in a hurtful way.

Yes, there are different levels of immersion. Very different.

When you understand that, and accept that.....it can be a wonderful thing for what it is....and your heart will be safe. I'll get back to you when I perfect that process.

this. life is short. don't spend it chasing rainbows that have no pot at the end.

or....enjoy the rainbow for what it is.....without expecting a pot at the end.

*IF* that's agreeable to both, then sure. If it's not, then no. Don't lower/change your standards to adjust to someone else's or in the long run, you are still going to be wishing for that pot that you decided to compromise on.......if it's cool with you both to have no pot, then, sure. Have fun!

but if the rainbow is beautiful....and they usually are....but only briefly....you're not necessarily altering your standards....or being cheated....by having no pot at the end. Maybe the treasure is in the rainbow itself, and there is no need for a pot....so no need to even discuss a pot...or wish for one. You already found your treasure, Treasure.

i think, in this case Mickey, they had acknowledged a pot.... as assumed by the use of the word "partner"

to the OP - a supposition...to my mind and in my aged experience, 'agressively demanding attention' is possibly a sure fire way to get your partner/friend moving in one direction - away, be it RL or SL. I wouldn't generally want the emotional responsibilty of dealing with someone else's perceived clingy needs and over-stressing about missed IM's. The old adage maybe true.....familiarity does breed contempt and in SL it's far easier to walk away and deal with the hassles we have in RL 24/7.

confronting someone who is your "partner" for completely ignoring you is not the sign of a needy partner.

also, acknowledging that you feel things are changing is also not clingy. it's communicating, and observant.

maybe....but I sort of read between the lines and caught him describing a rainbow, and not the pot. Might have read incorrectly. But if you caught yourself holding a rainbow in your hands....with full expectations of the pot at the end...it doesn't hurt to try to adjust that a bit....so as not to miss the rainbow....this time, or next time.

Particularly in SL. Some people simply cannot give you a pot at the other end. That generally doesn't make them uncaring or insensitive or abusive. Some times discussing the pot....and the definition of the pot and the expectations of the pot...can make the rainbow less beautiful and less enjoyable. Particularly in SL. (repeating that).

Just an observation from seeing a long string of rainbows. Pot or no pot....

It's not unreasonable to expect a response to an IM either in world or via a regular chat program, if you are close. My husband and I chat via Googletalk when he's at work, because it allows both of us to pick our times in responding. We also know that it might take us a while to respond, because he might go on break just as I start wrapping up my current chore. I've sometimes responded HOURS after my hubby has sent me one. Same goes for him. Tis why we chose to IM rather than just phone.

But in this case, we know we might not get an immediate response. We know what the other is likely doing and that it why they haven't responded. Sounds like the OP doesn't have that kind of assurance. It actually sounds like the OP's partner has moved on already and is just waiting for the OP to realize it.

As everyone else has said, it's time to talk to your partner and find out what's up and whether it's time for you to move on or not.

I just shoot my special someone a yahoo IM when she doesn't respond. Her SL crashes a lot and we'll both be having conversations with nobody for a good couple minutes until the "XXXX has gone offline" is displayed. One of the more common things we say to one another is "what was the last thing you said?".