Info on the Future Plans for SL- by the Lindens
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Clarissa Lowell
Gone. G'bye.
Join date: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 3,020
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03-14-2009 02:39
From: Felix Oxide I wonder how many will see this new adult continent as the new land of expressive freedom rather than the redlight district it was created to be and abandon the PG and Mature mainland simply for that reason. It won't be big enough is my bet, Felix. I think the endgame here is to get people to move off the mainland - which their shops helped lure people onto and their citizens helped 'create' - and control the population on the leper colony, their purpose has now been served, tyvm. Now let's tighten the border and keep them there. Why would the controls stop at the beginning, y'know?
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Kalderi Tomsen
Nomad Extraordinaire!
Join date: 10 May 2007
Posts: 888
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03-16-2009 09:07
I have tried to put myself in the position that the Adult businesses are in - probably didn't do too good a job, but here's the best I can do.
Help manage a Traditional Japanese-themed business and the associated sims. We have thought often about trying to build some sort of common "linkage" between sims that have a similar aesthetic. If LL were to offer to bring all of those sims together into an "asian block" then I think we would be very happy about it, because we could pretty much rely on people wandering around from sim-to-sim, because they would be interested in seeing what others would do.
But in this case, there is a huge outcry, and claims that LL are "ghettoising" Adult, that they don't approve of it, that's it's like a leper colony. Has ANYTHING they have said indicated that, or is this just what people are extrapolating?
If I were to want Adult content, I would like nothing more than to have a place to go where I could wander around and see what is "on offer", not worrying that I am straying onto someone's private property, and knowing that the other people around me are willingly interested in similar things as me.
LL are saying that they will help people find adult content by helping make the search more able to find it.
So there is one reason, and one reason only that I could imagine people being upset, and that is how LL is going to move everyone without impacting their business, but all the rest seems to be some perhaps paranoid interpretation based on no facts.
And even if the move is tough, there will always be people on the internet who are looking for "adult" activities. I really don't think this current move is going to impact this in any way, shape or form. And the "first they banished us to a separate continent... what next" crowd should read the Wikipedia article on the "Slippery Slope Fallacy".
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Kalderi, General Manager, Hosoi Ichiba and Hosoi Design
- - - Hosoi Ichiba - High Quality Classically-styled Asian buildings, furniture and home decorations in an old-fashioned Japanese market garden on Japan Kanto. http://hosoi-ichiba.blogspot.com/
Hosoi Design - High Quality prefabs and furnishings, plus commercial buildings.
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Clarissa Lowell
Gone. G'bye.
Join date: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 3,020
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03-16-2009 22:48
From: Kalderi Tomsen So there is one reason, and one reason only that I could imagine people being upset, and that is how LL is going to move everyone without impacting their business, but all the rest seems to be some perhaps paranoid interpretation based on no facts.
And even if the move is tough, there will always be people on the internet who are looking for "adult" activities. I really don't think this current move is going to impact this in any way, shape or form. And the "first they banished us to a separate continent... what next" crowd should read the Wikipedia article on the "Slippery Slope Fallacy". Well you accuse people of using strong language to convey their reactions but isn't "paranoid" a bit strong, too, Kalderi? (Whatever "all the rest" also means. Not blanket or anything, is that statement?) Since you have stated previously that you do not like, do not wish to see and do not participate in adult activities in SL, maybe this doesn't affect you? Unless you can empathise with those it does affect, then perhaps it's all going to seem an overreaction to you regardless of intrinsic merit involved in any given position. (cough) There were a lot more issues raised during the discussions than moving businesses (which is no small thing in itself and people did outline their reasons why, they weren't just spouting "paranoia"  so if you missed those maybe you should reread the threads.
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Tali Rosca
Plywood Whisperer
Join date: 6 Feb 2007
Posts: 767
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03-17-2009 01:25
From: Keira Wells Okay, so... I just want to make sure I'm correct in what I've gleaned from various posts (I'm not reading the entire Linden threads, as they're very active and can get confusing, in my opinion)
1. SL is gaining a new content rating, of Adult. 2. Adult content includes public places centered around sex and violence, such as sex clubs, sex toy shops, some (?) combat sims, and so on. 3. Mature and PG will remain essentially as they are now, with those mentioned in point 2 being moved up. Private residences and areas that include mature visuals, but are not centered around them (Such as skin stores, and so on), will be able to keep 'Mature' rating rather than 'Adult'. 4. To access Adult rated content, some form of ID verification will be needed. Either payment info used, or other form (Unsure on types). 5. There will be a new continent to house just Adult themed sims and parcels, which will be inaccessible by those not verified, and private sims located as such elsewhere will become inaccessible and invisible to the unverified.
Is this the basic gist of it? One major problem which has at least *me* worried is that *somebody* in LL wrote and published the knowledge base article laying down the actual rules for what was considered "Adult". Those rules stated, for example, *any* realistic nudity, *any* type of erotic content, and pretty much essentially anything currently considered "mature". The article was fairly quickly pulled and replaced with a "we're working on it", but *somebody* in LL must obviously think this is the way it should be, or they wouldn't have written and published it in the first place. Some other Lindens have commented in the forum, suggesting far more sensible rules, but that's so far all we have, indicating at the very least a *huge* disagreement within LL, and no word on who's take is actually the "authoritative". This opens up both a bit of a slippery slope, where the definition slowly can be expanded little by little, and the very real risk that you'll be judged by the personal taste of whichever Linden happens to be on duty.
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Very Keynes
LSL is a Virus
Join date: 6 May 2006
Posts: 484
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03-17-2009 01:55
When I first arrived in SL I was shocked and dismayed by the discovery of BDSM, the obvious Sexual nature of a lot of the content and most defiantly by the concept of slavery, I am African, to me it was a nightmare. But I explored, I met people, I listened. I found a diversity of cultures, of beliefs of sexual tolerance. A world where we were separated only by Time, not by Borders, Colour, Creed or Sexual Preference. I stayed and I loved it. What LL are doing here is segregating and killing that diversity. Quote: Originally Posted by Jeska Linden To be clear, the blog states there are three main features involved in this change:
* Provide a way to geographically separate Adult content to a new part of the “mainland” designed * Filter search results, so that those who do not wish to see “Adult” results will not * Require that those who access or see “Adult” content (whether on land or in search) have had their accounts verified – such as by a payment or age verification method.
In the real world I grew up in a country with forced removals where different groups were allocated separate land, pass laws to verify your status, of censorship in media and in speech. In short the 3 points Jeska highlights above. We had a name for it:
'Apartheid — meaning separateness in Dutch (which is cognate to the English apart and -hood) — was a system of legal segregation enforced by the government in South Africa between 1948 and 1994. The vestiges of apartheid still shape South African politics and society.'
I now have to live with the aftermath of Apartheid and it is not nice, our society is so fragmented, groups are still suspicious of each other, cultures keep to themselves. Everything is the opposite of what drew me so deeply into SL.
If LL are hell bent on enforcing "the crime of apartheid" onto the virtual world of SL, then they are bound to repeat history and as a social experiment Second Life has failed.
These proposals will not affect me in any way, they may effect some of my friends, but they will effect a lot of people initially and all of us in the end.
I lived with and fought against Apartheid all my life, do I now have to repeat that in my Virtual world?
Flame away, but I stick by the above, this is meant to be a fantasy world, not a mirror of the real world.
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Aeona Barthelmess
Registered User
Join date: 25 May 2008
Posts: 13
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03-17-2009 02:08
From: Very Keynes When I first arrived in SL I was shocked and dismayed by the discovery of BDSM, the obvious Sexual nature of a lot of the content and most defiantly by the concept of slavery, I am African, to me it was a nightmare. But I explored, I met people, I listened. I found a diversity of cultures, of beliefs of sexual tolerance. A world where we were separated only by Time, not by Borders, Colour, Creed or Sexual Preference. I stayed and I loved it. What LL are doing here is segregating and killing that diversity. Quote: Originally Posted by Jeska Linden To be clear, the blog states there are three main features involved in this change:
* Provide a way to geographically separate Adult content to a new part of the “mainland” designed * Filter search results, so that those who do not wish to see “Adult” results will not * Require that those who access or see “Adult” content (whether on land or in search) have had their accounts verified – such as by a payment or age verification method.
In the real world I grew up in a country with forced removals where different groups were allocated separate land, pass laws to verify your status, of censorship in media and in speech. In short the 3 points Jeska highlights above. We had a name for it:
'Apartheid — meaning separateness in Dutch (which is cognate to the English apart and -hood) — was a system of legal segregation enforced by the government in South Africa between 1948 and 1994. The vestiges of apartheid still shape South African politics and society.'
I now have to live with the aftermath of Apartheid and it is not nice, our society is so fragmented, groups are still suspicious of each other, cultures keep to themselves. Everything is the opposite of what drew me so deeply into SL.
If LL are hell bent on enforcing "the crime of apartheid" onto the virtual world of SL, then they are bound to repeat history and as a social experiment Second Life has failed.
These proposals will not affect me in any way, they may effect some of my friends, but they will effect a lot of people initially and all of us in the end.
I lived with and fought against Apartheid all my life, do I now have to repeat that in my Virtual world?
Flame away, but I stick by the above, this is meant to be a fantasy world, not a mirror of the real world. Awesome post, Very Keynes. It is really the right argument to show how misguided and unconscionable this LL's move is!!
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Kalderi Tomsen
Nomad Extraordinaire!
Join date: 10 May 2007
Posts: 888
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03-17-2009 06:17
From: Clarissa Lowell Since you have stated previously that you do not like, do not wish to see and do not participate in adult activities in SL, maybe this doesn't affect you? Clarissa, could you please tell me where I have said that? If you can, then I will go and correct it, because that is NOT the case for me. I guess I wish to have a CHOICE - and that includes being able to visit places and be pretty certain that I won't get bombarded with overtly sexual material, and being able to visit places where my interests are more "Adult" and be able to find it there. This isn't about children, teen grid or whatever. I have had a few friends that I have tried to bring into SL who haven't because of its image as a haven for adult activities that are all-pervasive in the world (note that I said its "image" - I have wandered around enough to see that it's nowhere near as bad as the media would like to make it out to be). I'm sure that other people have had the same reaction due to this perception. If you had read some of my other threads on this subject you would have seen that. From: Clarissa Lowell Unless you can empathise with those it does affect, then perhaps it's all going to seem an overreaction to you regardless of intrinsic merit involved in any given position. (cough) Nasty cough you have there. So I'm only allowed to have an opinion on the debate if I agree with the side you happen to represent? This isn't the first time we have seen this type of over-reaction happen by residents, and I'm sure it won't be the last, based on my time in SL. I would really appreciate it if you choose to represent my opinions on this matter, you do some more research on what my opinions actually are. Thanks.
_____________________
Kalderi, General Manager, Hosoi Ichiba and Hosoi Design
- - - Hosoi Ichiba - High Quality Classically-styled Asian buildings, furniture and home decorations in an old-fashioned Japanese market garden on Japan Kanto. http://hosoi-ichiba.blogspot.com/
Hosoi Design - High Quality prefabs and furnishings, plus commercial buildings.
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Treasure Ballinger
Virtual Ability
Join date: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,745
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03-17-2009 08:04
From: Very Keynes When I first arrived in SL I was shocked and dismayed by the discovery of BDSM, the obvious Sexual nature of a lot of the content and most defiantly by the concept of slavery, I am African, to me it was a nightmare. But I explored, I met people, I listened. I found a diversity of cultures, of beliefs of sexual tolerance. A world where we were separated only by Time, not by Borders, Colour, Creed or Sexual Preference. I stayed and I loved it. What LL are doing here is segregating and killing that diversity. Quote: Originally Posted by Jeska Linden To be clear, the blog states there are three main features involved in this change:
* Provide a way to geographically separate Adult content to a new part of the “mainland” designed * Filter search results, so that those who do not wish to see “Adult” results will not * Require that those who access or see “Adult” content (whether on land or in search) have had their accounts verified – such as by a payment or age verification method.
In the real world I grew up in a country with forced removals where different groups were allocated separate land, pass laws to verify your status, of censorship in media and in speech. In short the 3 points Jeska highlights above. We had a name for it:
'Apartheid — meaning separateness in Dutch (which is cognate to the English apart and -hood) — was a system of legal segregation enforced by the government in South Africa between 1948 and 1994. The vestiges of apartheid still shape South African politics and society.'
I now have to live with the aftermath of Apartheid and it is not nice, our society is so fragmented, groups are still suspicious of each other, cultures keep to themselves. Everything is the opposite of what drew me so deeply into SL.
If LL are hell bent on enforcing "the crime of apartheid" onto the virtual world of SL, then they are bound to repeat history and as a social experiment Second Life has failed.
These proposals will not affect me in any way, they may effect some of my friends, but they will effect a lot of people initially and all of us in the end.
I lived with and fought against Apartheid all my life, do I now have to repeat that in my Virtual world?
Flame away, but I stick by the above, this is meant to be a fantasy world, not a mirror of the real world. Awesome post indeed. *Nods*. As an American black woman, I totally understand this. 'Being black' as well as being female, are both things that migrated over into SL with me, that's just where my comfort zone lies. Like you I was also shocked 'at first' and then learned a level of tolerance/acceptance that can only be a good thing. I 'never' just walk up on anything I don't want to see in SL. If I see adult content, it's because I TP'd to it, not because I came upon it unawares. LL seems to think that adult content just appears in front of people all the time, through no fault of their own. I don't think so, I have to be looking for it to see it. Anyway, thanks for your great post.
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Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
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03-17-2009 08:20
From: Kalderi Tomsen I guess I wish to have a CHOICE - and that includes being able to visit places and be pretty certain that I won't get bombarded with overtly sexual material, and being able to visit places where my interests are more "Adult" and be able to find it there. This isn't about children, teen grid or whatever. I have had a few friends that I have tried to bring into SL who haven't because of its image as a haven for adult activities that are all-pervasive in the world (note that I said its "image" - I have wandered around enough to see that it's nowhere near as bad as the media would like to make it out to be). I'm sure that other people have had the same reaction due to this perception. Seeing how it's only 2-4% of the content, I wonder where you're going to get "bombarded" by adult content. And you do have a choice, it's called TELEPORT. Since I took up sailing recently, I've gone around to see a lot of mainland and there is very little explicit content out in the open. Yes, there are some juveniles with gigantic penises out there, but they are not the majority of SL and they can be written off. The fact is that most sexual activity takes place behind closed doors, and this move isn't going to do anything to change SL's reputation or the so-called choice, not when people can still move their cameras inside others' homes.
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Affordable & beautiful apartments & homes starting at 150L/wk! Waterfront homes, 575L/wk & 300 prims! House of Cristalle low prim prefabs: secondlife://Cristalle/111/60http://cristalleproperties.info http://careeningcristalle.blogspot.com - Careening, A SL Sailing Blog
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Isablan Neva
Mystic
Join date: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 2,907
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03-17-2009 08:38
From: Cristalle Karami Seeing how it's only 2-4% of the content, I wonder where you're going to get "bombarded" by adult content. And you do have a choice, it's called TELEPORT. Since I took up sailing recently, I've gone around to see a lot of mainland and there is very little explicit content out in the open. Yes, there are some juveniles with gigantic penises out there, but they are not the majority of SL and they can be written off. The fact is that most sexual activity takes place behind closed doors, and this move isn't going to do anything to change SL's reputation or the so-called choice, not when people can still move their cameras inside others' homes. Exactly -- which is why I keep going back to the search listings. There really isn't all that much explicit adult content just lolling around the mainland. Where it is hard to avoid is in search listings. And in search listings is exactly where new residents are going to be looking for "what do I do here in this virtual world?" If the search listings default to PG and the search tool is set to automatically exclude the word "sex," that would solve the problem. However, it kills every business that sits on Mature land -- which is most of them.
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sable Valentine
AU United
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,275
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03-17-2009 08:51
From: Treasure Ballinger Awesome post indeed. *Nods*. As an American black woman, I totally understand this. 'Being black' as well as being female, are both things that migrated over into SL with me, that's just where my comfort zone lies. Like you I was also shocked 'at first' and then learned a level of tolerance/acceptance that can only be a good thing. I 'never' just walk up on anything I don't want to see in SL. If I see adult content, it's because I TP'd to it, not because I came upon it unawares. LL seems to think that adult content just appears in front of people all the time, through no fault of their own. I don't think so, I have to be looking for it to see it. Anyway, thanks for your great post. I concur Treasure as being an American black woman more profound for me when I first arrived to sl is the number of individuals wanting to roleplay slavery among other things. However, sl is supposed to be a fantasy and in ways this has taught me to be more open minded and tolerant in rl. I may not agree with someone and it is my CHOICE where to engage or not. Like Christalle says, there is the Teleport option. I also agree with Very Keynes post. Well thought out and written Very.
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