Disappointed with Hair I've Purchased

Seconded (or is that thirded?) My items are all mod so people can suit their own individual style in color, size, etc.

That's the ludicrous part, no modify only prevents that kind of copying that a really determined person would use. It does nothing against the lazy approach.

Sure, that can happen if there's a no-mod script inside (color change maybe?). Sitting in your inventory, the perms tag reflects the most restrictive perms of any part of the object - but the prims themselves might still be fully modifiable.

As a poseball maker I get asked about that from time to time, since my poseballs contain proprietary no-mod scripts and animations (like pretty much all retail pose sets) - but the balls themselves are of course modifiable so people can adjust them for height and such.

These days many creators make prim items no mod because there are widely available "copybot" style scripts which can clone any prim item they can be placed inside, in an item is no mod this script cannot be placed into them.

The blame lies with people who will exploit anything to make money, the same goes for my kids playground which now contains none of the fun things these places had when I was young, people sued councils when their kids fell off or scraped themselves on these things, now all you have left are safety swings over a giant rubber mat.

All freedoms and privileges are eventually eroded by people who abuse them, making it so in the end those things are gone and people who enjoyed them and used them properly have to pay the price, this is true in many areas of life.

I will happilly buy prim hair that is no mod if the maker provides a demo, Id prefer mod of course but I fully understand a creators decision to not allow mod these days.

Put the blame where it belongs.

It's not a question of blame, it's a question of utility. If a business wants to survive, it serves its customers, and hair-buyers want to be able to mod their hair--and *not* just resize it. I've never owned hair that I didn't have to adjust specific prims. (And don't get me started on no-mod shoes; I've ranted enough about that to last a month or so.)

Even for less-sophisticated (?) buyers who don't adjust individual prims, resize scripts are stuck in that hair, using a little slice of sim resources every frame even when idle. This is just a silly, silly "solution" to an insignificant part of the problem.

When whole sims crop up chock-full of copybotted merchandise, trying to prevent somebody from maybe running a clone script on a modifiable prim assembly is wishful thinking at best. Wishful, and very short-sighted, since the message it sends, loud and clear, is "we really don't care much about our paying customers."

Thanks for your advice, everyone! I will try adjusting my graphic settings today & see if that does anything. If not, I'll try contacting those of you who gave me permission & show you what I'm talking about. I really appreciate all the detailed answers & I'll let you know what (if anything) fixed the problem.

And punish the paying consumers for the wrongs of a few renegades? Sorry, but no. I won't buy no-mod houses, hair, or non-HUD attachments of any kind.

You said you wont buy no mod items, so you are not their paying customer being punished, its like the people who demand a copy/no trans version of an item that the seller doesnt sell that way and then act like its the end of the world when the creator refuses, the creator is perfectly entitled to sell an item they spent countless hours making in the way they choose, others are perfectly entitled to not buy it, there is no gun to peoples heads.

Want perms of your choosing? this is SL, the tools are there to make whatever you desire.

The risk may be small in your oppinion, but when its not your creation its not your risk to take, its the creators, maybe they weigh up that a few lost sales is better than finding everything they ever made in a "full perms shop" or "business in a box"

Back on the topic, the OP should contact the seller of the hair if the paid-for item is wildly different to the demo one in shape

You missed the point entirely:
* no-mod is less desirable than mod and will get less sales to some degree
* no-mod does not deter anyone from copying it anyway

The net result is that you have something that offers no protection at all and actually goes contrary to what (some) customers want. It's the equivalent of putting an "anti-copybot !quit" script inside of everything you sell: it made sense at some point in the past, but no longer has any relevance today.

Every content creator on SL really owes it to him- or herself to actually go ahead and attempt to copy something they created with restricted permissions on an alt, or to learn how to if they don't already know, to actually know from practical experience what does and what does not work rather than rely on hearsay and false information.

The copybot actually in use isn't a script, isn't even slowed down by SL permissions, and doesn't even require the copier to buy the original. No modify is a set of hardened bars on the upstairs windows while the front door is wide open. Those resize and self-destruct scripts sold to builders are the same kind of snake oil as the bogus "!quit" spambots.

You are talking about the original copybot, what is for sale now is replicator scripts

Please go to search places and type "copybot", let me share with you the documentation on one of these items:

- IT DOES work on Havok 4
- IT DOES copy no-copy objects
- IT DOES copy no-transfer objects with transfer permissions
- IT DOES support physical objects, or any type of objects for that matter.
- IT DOES copy object contents
- IT DOES copy objects with unlimited complexity (no "memory upgrades" required)
- YOU CANNOT copy no-modify objects

The instructions state to rez the item near the item to be copied, then to drop a script included with the item into the root prim of the item to be copied, it will then clone it.

Making your items NO MOD protects from this kind of "copybot"

This is why creators make items no mod.

For obvious reasons, one doesn't find a real copybot in Search. Whatever those scripts are called, they are *not* a copybot. They aren't a bot--they're scripts. And they've been around forever. If one understands what they *really* do, they are simply lame compared to the copybot threat. Protecting against them is simply not protecting against the real threat, and any merchant who imagines otherwise should seriously educate themselves about what IP theft is actually happening.

Protecting against these scripts is utterly beside the point.

That said, merchants are indeed within their rights to make items no-mod. And everyone else would be within their rights to laugh at them and ridicule them for being so naive. Or, better, to just not buy their stuff.

The point is not that prim duplicating scripts do not exist, the point is that no-mod hair is useless. It is entirely up to the designer if they wish to make hair no-mod, but it is like making textures no-trans to prevent them being resold.

Incidentally, duplicating scripts can certainly copy object contents but only if the owner already has copy permission, and they can also only then transfer them if the owner has transfer permission, so they are not really doing anything one couldn't do by hand.

Scripts are for sale. Those are not what the people actually selling copied content are using.



The actual software that is useful to pirates does NOT copy object contents and DOES copy objects with no regard to permissions and has nothing at all to do with Havok.



The real thing doesn't require anything to be rezzed. What you are looking at is a knockoff, probably released by the same people who sell "solutions" to it.

Unless there's a rather serious new bug with llGetTexture/llGetPrimitiveParams this won't copy textures on anything that's not full permission.

In order to do that they'd have to grab the texture UUID on every face and set it manually per prim, or rip the texture and apply it that way. Both methods require a certain amount of time and effort that drastically increases when not all of the prims/faces all have the exact same texture.

Noone is really going to bother with that when the alternative method takes mere seconds and isn't subject to any permission restrictions, and if they are bothering with it making everything no-mod is only just going to drive them towards using an actual copybot or adjust the viewer source since the effort required in copying anything with the method you highlight would require someone to be pretty determined already which means they're not very likely to just give up.

Whether you choose to believe it or not doesn't change the fact that no-mod doesn't deter anyone determined and is simply not a useful way of protecting anything. No-mod means "can not modify" and nothing more.

Once again: please actually look into something instead of just clinging to hearsay.

Heh. Yeah, that'll happen. =^_^=

Drug laws dont stop someone determined to get drugs, gun laws dont stop people determined to get guns either, having laws against these things only makes people go to more dubious sources.

Perhaps designers should not uncheck any of the perms being as its possible for a determined person to copy them anyway,thats the logical conclusion to your argument, why bother to try to protect something when someone determined enough could copy it anyway.

Why have a car alarm?, infact why bother to lock a cars doors, come to think of it - why take the key out of the ignition?

Anyone determined enough can get around restrictions, but thats no reason to simply not bother with those restrictions.

But as Im being accused of clinging to hearsay, I will state the things I believe to be facts, you can answer true or false after them, rather than start giving me the benefits of your insight into the criminal mind and what they "will" or "wont" do

1. No mod prim builds cannot be copied by LSL

2. Mod prim builds can be copied by LSL

3. Creators have the right to set whatever perms they wish on items they created

1. True
2. True
3. True

4. Also true: No-mod items are still less desirable than mod items, so you're going to see fewer sales going that route.

That's the point being made here, palley. That you're "defending" against a minor threat (LSL copies), failing to defend against another minor threat (copybot, which is still out there), and doing your sales some damage in the process.

Cost-benefit analysis says: Sell mod items.

True for the simple reason that the only things you can fully recreate with LSL are full permission prims
False unless they're full permission to begin with

(Recreating a prim build without the textures on it does not qualify as a "full copy", hence the false)
Anyone can set the permissions they want; anyone can drop 100 "!quit" scripts into their creations too. Neither was ever the point.

Setting no mod on items solely because you think it makes something more safe is the point. Content theft doesn't work on a level where permissions are relevant so would-be thieves aren't going to care or be bothered by whatever choice you make; (potential) customers on the other hand are stuck with the permissions on an item and are bothered by no-mod.

thankyou



No Im defending peoples right to decide for themselves the size of threat something is to them.

If 10 people were stood around me telling me skydiving was safe and I was being stupid to not want to, and Im "listening to too many horror stories", Id still not want to do it and be slightly annoyed these people wouldnt respect my right to decide whats best for me.

By all means - dont buy no mod things, I just think its not fair to beat up on people who sell them.

Pfft. Palley, no one's attacking or disrespecting your or anyone else's right to make their own decision.

You're just being told it's not a good decision.

Because it isn't.

in your opinion.

And what else would it be besides my opinion? I don't think I need point out the obvious, do I?

maybe needed clarification of that because oppinion is not the same thing as fact.

Back to the example of scripted hair, I bought two of these from the same store a couple of weeks ago. They look fabulous, but are an absolute pain in the arse to adjust. The scripts are laggy, even in the quietest of sims, they're confusing (+y or -y; well which direction IS y, when you're wearing the damn thing?), they move by tiny increments (+1 or +5 on all-prim resize is fine, but on individual prim sizing it's +/-1 or nothing) and worst of all, the adjustments don't save and there's no way of locking them in. Change your hair, then switch back to the previously-adjusted one, and all your adjustments are gone. The hair has reverted to its default state.

With normally-moddable hair I could have it edited to fit me in about five minutes, and the edits would stay in place. With this new scripted hair, however much I love it, I'm stuck with wearing the same one because I don't want to have to go through an hour or so of miniscule editing every time I change it.