Why So Much Fear?

Why is it it seems people who sell stuff in sl are so afraid and paranoid of others re-selling their things or changing them a bit as in adjusting them? Whats the big deal? Aren't they getting the Lindens they're asking for when selling their items?

I recently asked someone who owns a club where he got some particles he had at the club cause I thought they would look nice at my own place. He responded he doesn't tell anyone cause many people want to copy his club. Copy his club? That sounds a bit ridiculous cause even if someone did it it doesn't mean this person will lose business.

I see more and more paranoia in sl from sellers of merchandise, all unwarranted I think.
What do you guys think? Is this behavior needless from them?

no, because there are a ton of theives out there.

there are only so many things you can make, so it stands to reason that people will make 'similar' things, or get the same textures from the internet, but put on a unique build...

but there are tons of people who will duplicate your exact build, prim for prim... even stealing your textures to duplicate it completely. there are tons of threads about it, but i don't want to look them up. people are only paranoid because they, or someone they know, has been thieved.

I'll tell you what, Carlos. You go spend several weeks or months of your free time making nice textures, or houses, or anything else you can think of. Then have some stranger copy all of it and start selling it to newbies as a L$200 "Business in a Box". Watch hundreds of those newbies try to charge L$20 each for something you felt was worth L$200, because of the time and effort and care that you put into making it. They don't care. They didn't spend that time. It's just free junk.

How do you think that will affect your ability to get a fair price for your original work? If dozens or even hundreds of strangers all over the grid, or even right next door to your shop, are selling your work for a fraction of what you hoped to sell it for. Or worse yet, are giving it away for free, full perms. How much money could you lose? Was it worth the effort?

There are, sadly, many people in SL who have about as much ethics as a locust, and who couldn't care less about how hard you worked to make that stuff. They will happily steal your neat things and then sell them cheap, to make a fast buck off your efforts. That is why content creators are "paranoid". Because they have seen stuff ripped off again and again and again.

I have seen clubs copied prim for prim. I've even heard of someone intentionally naming their copy-cat club the exact same name as the original.

It is far too common.

I played Starwars Galaxies and anyone who did the same knows over there it wasn't as easy to build as in sl. Here, you make one item and copy the rest from it. At Galaxies you had to build every single item from scratch getting different components, metals and other different things needed to build each and every item you made. There was no shortcut as copiable items as here. Not only that but you either harvested the metal (more cost) and/or components or you had to buy it elsewhere unlike here. In other words it was much harder then here.

With this said I used to make houses as a Master Architect among other things. The small ones ran at an avg of $10,000 - $12,000 credits in SWG. I sold cheap I was noobie friendly. I would sell them for $5000-$6,000 and they would be scooped up almost as fast as I put them up for sell. Other shop owners would do this then they would re-sell them for more in their shops. I didn't care since I already had gotten the price I had asked for so what's the difference here? And yes, my name was on them as they are in sl.

Doing it like this I manage to surpass the $200 million mark over there. Meaning you still can make money and be well off in sl without being so afraid of who makes what from you or who does what with their items after they're brought from you.

As long as you get the price you're asking for why do you care who sells it again? Why do you care if someone adjusts it to their taste? You shouldn't care if they buy a house or anything and tear it to pieces because it's no longer yours. Because it has your name as creator? No one cares. Consumers just want to buy for less, that's it.

So someone duplicates what you made. So What? Does it mean you're now out of business? You see the same exact items in many shops and they're still are open for business. It doesn't change anything if another sells what you're selling. There's enough for everyone, enough to go around.

I agree. There's a whole lot of paranoia in sl. Paranoia and greed.

Seems that quite different things are getting confounded here.

There's certainly a legitimate economic reason to want to protect IP from being copied without the creator's consent. It's hardly wrong of the creator to want to be able to offer goods at a price that recovers her expenses over many copies, as opposed to having to charge enough for a single copy that it recoups all expense. (It would be a different story if there were no such thing as copies, making this amortization impossible, as I gather is the case in the Starwars Galaxy example.)

But that's got (almost) nothing to do with mod permission. I have to say "almost" because scripts, for example, are inherently copiable if they can actually be modified. Also, modifiable prims can be readily copied, either manually or by script, sans textures or contents--although this is a less compelling case because the determined thief can also copy these things by... other means. Aside from such cases, the only legitimate reason I can think of for no-mod is fear of creating a customer support nightmare: some stuff is just too intricate to let the general buying public try to tinker with it. This, however, does not apply to shoes, skins, shirts, etc... all the things to which no-mod is most often applied.

And it's also irrelevant to a truly strange notion that folks shouldn't resell transferable items. I completely fail to understand this idea, so can't make a coherent comment about it.

(o)(o)

"protect IP " well thats a laugh LLABS doesnt even care. Look at the top popular listings and tell me if those freebie sites islands that are giving away copied and stolen textures and objects free is a sign of "protect IP "

Never mind some people are still living in 2004 on sl..............open your eyes and learn how the game works now. If it helps the newbie accounts stay on sl, LLABS will not do a thing. Nobody like people that needs to steal or cheat to get what want in rl. But those same people steal and cheat because its the only way they can deal with life.

I make all sorts of items, from clothing to furniture, skyboxes..books...etc It's really just a load of old rubbish but at least it's MY RUBBISH.... It's ME who has wasted time on creating it... It's ME who has stayed up half the night because she wanted to get something 'just right'. And I'd be quite vexed if someone went and copied it prim for prim because they were just too damn lazy to spend five minutes making their own stuff.

Well these people that need to steal have no other ways of making money . Just like their rl they can`t don`t and need to cheat. Why people even bother to come to sl if they need to do the same thing on sl as they do in rl. Is still a unthinkable thought. But then again simple minds for simple people. Why come to sl to do the same bad things you do in rl here too? Well because they just do have a mind to think any other way.

I do feel for you Pocket and you are right ........BTW waht does "vexed" mean? I understood what you meant but the word looks intersting.....But i don`t know what it means.

It's a very polite word meaning very f***ing angry...lol It's always been a favourite word of mine...

By the way, I don't think anyone's ever 'stolen' anything of mine....why would they anyway, it's really is a load of rubbish....

Thank you, but your experience grinding for things that other people had already built in SWG, in an entirely different economic environment, is just a tad irrelevant here.

Well for those that have had items stolen its not a laughing matter.....Love how people think its so easy to a copy someone AVIE or some person object without any work or time spent on sl. As a RL design person, I always laugh at the uncreative people, when they can`t figure out how to draw or create a decent piece of art work or interior. But instead the copy what you have because they have no talent to start with. All people have to do is ask for help, but no instead the have to steal and cheat. SL is a place to have fun and create right? To sell what you buildt to make money and learn skills. But some people just continue the sad ways of stealing from others.

It sounds like you don't understand the economics of SL, and how permission work.

Say a builder makes an item that takes 10 hours to make. This is their business, and they want a fair price for their work. Charging L$200 they'd make L$200,000 selling 1000 items.

Now, let's assume that item could be copied and sold on without restriction. Anyone buying it can resell as many copies as they like, for any price they like. As you say, "Consumers just want to buy for less, that's it.". By selling it for L$100, the copier can make money on the item for next to no work, and undercut the original builder. The builder is now less likely to sell copies for their original fair price. The price that can be asked for the item effectively drops to zero, as it is re-copied and sold at increasingly lower prices to undercut the competition.

"Does it mean you're now out of business?", you ask. Damn right it does. Who's going to buy the original if they can get it for free? The knock-on effect is that the builder stops making items for people to rip off. Why should they bother if they can't get a fair price for their work? You'll still get the odd craftsperson who is prepared to build for the pleasure of it, but soon there'll be no content to buy OR copy. Hardly paranoia or greed.

I think a lot of people also try to protect the uniqueness of their avatar and maybe their business. I think that club owner you ran into may not have been a particle creator but was trying to protect the unique design of his club... to the detriment of the particle seller who would've probably wanted you to know about his/her stuff. I've seen people with nice avatars being coy about revealing the source of their skins, clothes, etc. to stop people from looking like them.

Well then again if those people need to do such things just "STUPID" to start with. People that cannot create their own avies are wasting their times on sl. What the sence of be a copy of someone? They can never match the person that build it how behind the mouse and monitor? Again The Uncreative people really have to think again why they are on sl. Why copy when you can be happy with something that is well worth the time building yourself. Frankly speaking i seens copies of others even in locations i and around these days. I can tell a copy anywhere. But then again I feel very sorry for these people. because if they need to copy a person shape skin etc. TYhey really need to quit sl and find another past time to do. Because afther they are bored with getting the best in their minds they soon burnout and either leave or steal another person avies likeness.......
But if they are stealing your products and making a money off it thats is stealing.

Oh, and everyone who sells stuff in sl created every single piece they sell from scratch for the very first time ever? They and only they invented every piece they sell because it wasn't already here? This is what you're saying.

The same way I made things that were already there happens here too. Maybe once in a while someone will make something no one else has but that's once in a while. But for the most part everything made in sl was already here before much like in the other game. Yes, there had to be a first time for everything but thats no different then any other game where you build things.

These self appointed "designers" think everyone is out to get them. That everyone wants to copy what they make. That people are just waiting for a chance to copy their clubs and items. They give themselves way too much credit.

Not everyone is out to steal or copy but they think so. As I already stated there's enough for everyone and even if your item was copied you're not going to die of hunger. You'll still be there selling as you do. Sl is way too big to make a difference if someone sells the same thing you do. It's not like you can't find the same stuff in many shops cause you can.

Everything else is just excuses and paranoia. So you spend time making something, so what? No one forced you and trying to use this as an excuse is just that, an excuse.

While I understand builders don't want someone to copy from them at the same time that very same item you've made others also make too. Yet, you still live to sell yours. So what's the big deal? And no you're not out of business if someone sells the same thing you do even if it was copied from you and sold for less as this already happens in sl. You'll find the same items at difference prices. How many times haven't you seen an item you purchased somewhere else for more Lindens? Happens just as you'll find items you've paid less and now you see them being sold for more. Yet, nothing changes cause sl is pretty big and there's enough to go around.

Oh, and everyone who sells stuff in sl created every single piece they sell from scratch for the very first time ever? They and only they invented every piece they sell because it wasn't already here? This is what you're saying.

The same way I made things that were already there happens here too. Maybe once in a while someone will make something no one else has but that's once in a while. But for the most part everything made in sl was already here before much like in the other game. Yes, there had to be a first time for everything but thats no different then any other game where you build things.

These self appointed "designers" think everyone is out to get them. That everyone wants to copy what they make. That people are just waiting for a chance to copy their clubs and items. They give themselves way too much credit.

Not everyone is out to steal or copy but they think so. As I already stated there's enough for everyone and even if your item was copied you're not going to die of hunger. You'll still be there selling as you do. Sl is way too big to make a difference if someone sells the same thing you do. It's not like you can't find the same stuff in many shops cause you can.

Everything else is just excuses and paranoia. So you spend time making something, so what? No one forced you and trying to use this as an excuse is just that, an excuse.

While I understand builders don't want someone to copy from them at the same time that very same item you've made others also make too. Yet, you still live to sell yours. So what's the big deal? And no you're not out of business if someone sells the same thing you do even if it was copied from you and sold for less as this already happens in sl. You'll find the same items at difference prices. How many times haven't you seen an item you purchased somewhere else for more Lindens? Happens just as you'll find items you've paid less and now you see them being sold for more. Yet, nothing changes cause sl is pretty big and there's enough to go around.

Thank you, but your experience grinding for things that other people had already built in SWG, in an entirely different economic environment, is just a tad irrelevant here.

"And no you're not out of business if someone sells the same thing you do even if it was copied from you and sold for less as this already happens in sl. "

Are you really that irrational? Can you please explain your logic?

"But for the most part everything made in sl was already here before much like in the other game. "

Actually....no. UNLIKE other games or platforms, the content is user made in SL. If you had paid attention to the numerous carefully reasoned replies to your original question, you would already know this. Everything I have made is ENTIRELY my own creation, without the slightest theft of anyone else's creations. This is nothing at all like the "crafting" professions you see in other games. The comparison is so far removed as to be laughable.

By your logic, there is no such thing as plagiarism, either, since every writer uses the same alphabet.

"As long as you get the price you're asking for why do you care who sells it again? ..... Consumers just want to buy for less, that's it. "

Do you not see how your last sentence of that paragraph answers the first? Your caveat "as long as" is precisely the issue. Because, as Ceera and other have pointed out already, and eloquently, that is not what happens. The asking price is not sustained since (quoting you) "consumers just want to buy for less, that's it."

Another analogy: Hi, what's the big deal with plagiarism? As long as you got your grade on the paper, what do you care that I copied your work and submitted it as my own?"

See why this is a problem yet?

I love this quote...........But what it sounds like is a person that infavor of stealing. Ok let me put this in rl terms. Example you work in a office the boss gives you a work that requires 2 weeks of creative thinking ( which you suppose to have to start with that job title ). Now You have two weeks to compete the task. Now you decide you want to be lazy and just go to the beach for 1 1/2 weeks instead. Now you get to your office 3 days before its due time. The boss comes up to you and says " i want to see the rough of this project in 24 hours." Well what happens next? YOU PANIC! You run around trying to figure out a plan. facts are you don`t have creative thinking in your mind to start with so you are just ******* out of luck as they say. But you have a idea...........!!!!!!!!! they guy next to your cube is doing a simular project for a different concept ( yes its still stealing if you recreate the design phase in a different pattern.) You work over night to finish the task . Its done! (Well if you call it done ). Your boss sees this and says. ummmmmmmm ( hiro-san ( example of name..) this is very well done.. But ther is one problem. I assigned this project to sakamoto-san.....Ok i have one more project for you.......please tell me who your next boss is because i want to send him your resume...You look puzzled.........well love you just been let go for stealing someone else ideas and passing them off as yours......

Real Life facts to live by,

Usagi

Ricardo,

Disney is not going to go bankrupt because day care centers use their characters on their walls without an agreement. And their not going to go out of business because bakeries put their characters on cakes without an agreement. You know what? They still go after them. Theft is theft. I agree, sometimes I think people in SL wast far too much time and energy but there's another factor involved here that even major corporations don't deal with specifically--pride in workmanship. That's far more valuable than the actual cost.

I was thinking the same.

Comparing what you just spent 10 hours building & texturing doesnt compare to putting together something that is already built for you.

It's like saying "I have a copy of Windows XP & Mac OS X for sale. I didnt develop it, but its digital, so no one owns it"

Then again, by the same logic, you own a house & a car, does that mean I can come & just take them?

Sorry to stick a bug up yer ass, bud, but YES! In my case anyways.

This neccessarily doesnt mean you'll make "BIG money" though.

As for the 2nd part: Yea, but using someone else's labor isnt the way to go about it.

Disney is not going to go bankrupt ................

Well go look over at their website and their little VR world. What do you see? Well what you don`t see is reallife names or famous anymore. Or even disney related names. Why? Because they worry that it can damage the name of Disney if some little KIDS runs around and causes grief for others in toon town. Facts are LLABS desnt care about Copywrite anymore. ( unless that company is paying for ads on sl to start with ) then I wouldnt want to be you doing the copywrite breaking.

I'm confused Usagi. Are you debating with me? If you were you may want to reread what I wrote.