A thread every content creator must see.

I looked for other threads on this and did not see any so I started this one.

To those of you who are saying people are overreacting, that could very well be true, but it's important that everyone is at least informed about this. Only then can they decide how they want to react.

All I know is if I spent countless hours on a creation, I would be crushed if it was copied and redistributed in any way. It would give me the same outraged and helpless feeling of having my home broken into. I hope this thing never gets widespread or hurts a single hard-working creator.

I also hope, though, that it does not stop anyone from creating the things of beauty that make SL the amazing place that it is.

I'm not convinced that it's a "thread that every content creator must see".....as much as it is a thread that "every rip-off artist will take notes on."

Detailed information like that in public view just begs for abuse. Would rather people play their cards close to their chest, and stop publishing the mechanics. It's a blatant advertisement, and not toward the legitimate creators. And the more you discuss every single detail in a public format.....the easier and the more tempting you make it for someone.

If you acknowledge that it's going to destroy your business.....you just gave someone a huge incentive.

A buyer can never be sure. Only the creator can know for sure.

I suppose the only thing we can do is buy from established creators. But this would obviously make it very difficult for newcomers to establish a presence in SL.

I doubt this thread will be the catalyst to convince anyone to start using this client to do evil.

The only way to get LL to take notice is for as many people as possible to know about this, sound the alarm and ask them what they plan to do about it.

Regardless, the important info isn't here, it's in the other thread.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen.

We all know for a fact it does.

I'm just saying its not as wide spread as some would have us to believe.

The simple fact that you don't copy animations or scripts makes most things not worth copying anyway.

If you keep the items in your store in a vendor then they are relatively safe too (I haven't heard of a copy tool that hacks vendors?).

As for what people wear, many new clients are putting shields in them that do prevent OTHERS from copying your clothes, tho do NOT prevent the wearer from copying them.

Again, it is my opinion that the VAST majority of SL residents have little to no interest in copying things and will gleefully shop at your stores and pay for quality items.

I do understand your fear and would be devastated, as I said before, if someone were to copy something I spent hours, even days or weeks creating. I'm not belittling your fear.

Just trying to reassure you that no matter what copy tools are out there people like me will always pay you for your goods. Take heart, don't leave, keep creating and we'll keep shopping

Handy.

I strongly agree with you.

This sounds like a security issue (permissions exploit). If so, it needs to be treated as a security risk, and the best way to address those is early disclosure. That tells people that a problem exists, even if it can't be fixed yet. Not telling anyone just leads to false security while the exploits happen anyway.

If it is indeed a permissions bug, then only LL can fix it, and it can only be done server side. I never dug into the client code to see what is possible there protocol-wise.

Remember, security exploits happen, whether you know about it or not, which is why non-disclosure isn't in the best interest of the community.

There is enough info in this thread to make someone's head spin. You think the only people reading this are the ones who are leaving posts?

Go up to your Quick Link function, and click on Who's Online at any given time of day. You can personally vouch for everyone online reading threads right now?

This thread gave a link to another thread. Both threads give way too much info. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to follow along or click a few links.

There are ways to pass along this infomation to content creators without blasting it out to the public.

Whereas everybody on that other forum is in full agreement with eachother.

"psst... do you make things?"

"here!, have a copy of this notecard. just don't tell anybody!"

Sorry you feel that way.

Any other way to pass this info on to content creators would also get the word out to the people who would abuse the client.

Maybe you should stop bumping this thread. Or ask the moderator to have it locked since it's so threatening.

What would those be? And, is there a way to inform honest and interested consumers while we are at it?


I mean, I take your point about not giving away all the details of an exploit, not linking directly to sites where these programs can be obtained, but it seems a bit of a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. If we talk about it, then it is creating new thieves by telling them what to do and if we don't then there is a lot of disbelief about the amount of time creators of things like clothes/skins/hair/shoes/textures/sculptmaps spend tracking down stolen content, filing DMCA's and having it removed, or retiring those products all together.

For myself I would rather know what is out there. I would rather know because it makes me more careful where I spend my L$, and the effort I am willing to go to before every single purchase to do what I can to make a reasonable assessment of whether content is legitimate or not. I would rather know so that I don't waste my time and annoying people on my land and in my store doing things like spamming anti-copybot nonsense or disabling scripts in a completely futile attempt to protect myself from something I don't understand. I would rather know as I make decisions how I want to spend my money and time moving forward (or not) in SL.

I'm not being snarky, Raymond. I'm expressing a concern. This thread will get bumped regardless of how many times I post.

Proceed as you wish.

Anybody capable of making such a tool that's interested in such things already thought of everything mentioned in this thread, long ago, and probably a dozen not mentioned. There aren't any secrets being revealed here.

[#SVC-4841] Useful restrictions on unverified accounts to create barriers on alt abuse in reselling and distribution of copied content - Second Life Issues

[#SVC-4181] Create a content ratings system to prevent offensive content rezzing in sims with the wrong rating - Second Life Issues

If anyone is interested. Hypatia Callisto has these JIRA's

Nimue - I'm just offering up a suggestion. Every time I come across one of these threads, I cringe. You make some very good points.

I'm just saying play your cards close to your chest. Keep the info limited. Not all will agree with that.

Like I said, I can appreciate that point of view, and there are times when I am on the side of holding back some of the details. And, I cringe too, because of the theft and the hurt, stress, and frustration it causes - that totally aside from any financial concerns. Talking about this stuff doesn't just run the risk of drawing in new thieves, it also runs the risk of scaring off would be content creators. Though that may be a wise decision on their part, it is still a shame.

I didn't sleep enough last night, so I may have come off a little harsher than I intended. I apologize if that is the case.

Your concern is noted but think about it like this:

You are a 2006 just like I am and you went through the Copy Bot hysteria. As soon as it hit the grid every single person in SL knew the name "Copy Bot", could Google it, and then download it.

The exact same thing is going to happen in a few weeks when ThugLyfe is released. My reason for starting the thread is clear cut. I pleaded for EVERYONE to flood Office Hour Meetings and the Blogs and ask the Lindens what they are going to do about what is about to happen. What can they and we do NOW before it hits. There have also been some excellent solutions placed on the table that may also help.

My signature across the street now is one that I fervently believe and it sums it up:

"Know Thine Enemy"

I do not believe in burying my head in the sand.

You didn't come off harsh at all, and no reason to apologize. You made excellent points.

And I'm not being harsh on Raymond, or anyone who wants to talk about it. Just suggesting that some details not be tossed out.

As you said.....one of the side effects that I hate to see is discouraging creators, and watching them toss in the towel. There are so many ways to run your business to get past things like this.....and there will always be a THING.....or two.

I have a "thing" but who the hell has two???

Mickey, a thread on the SL Forums is more secure than a thread on SLU -- SLU comes up in Google, these forums do not. Also, I think that any forums are small potatoes compared to the how-to guides published by well-known SL blogs. I think, regrettably, that ship has sailed. 15 minutes after a great sim is added to the showcase, all its contents can be in freebie areas in OpenSim.

Content theft is one of those business problems that will never go away. But, a decent strategy to BEGIN addressing it is containable on a single large whiteboard. I hope that LL acts soon, but I have to say that the VERY visible feel-good meeting today about how successful content creation is in SL (the one that they've been pimping on the MOTD) is not encouraging:
http://www.metanomics.net/show/virtual_goods_and_linden_lab/

It looks to me like LL's rush to a successful endgame (IPO or merger) has begun. The only way to get them to act substantively on a troublesome issue like this is to hit them where it hurts - in the RL press. If SL content creators confine their alarm to SL blogs, forums and LL meetings, NOTHING will get done.

Some good ideas are being mooted about. However, all such ideas have unexpected effects, and address different facets of the problem, and I fear LL will get bogged down addressing concerns like these voiced by Adam Frisby (Adam Zaius), one of the leaders of OpenSim development: http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/?s=freebie

If LL attempts to come up with the "best" solution, they will get bogged down. LL should act now to put some hurdles in the paths of content thieves. Worry about the BEST solution later.

And, if anyone really wants this to happen, they will find a way to make this an issue in the eyes of investment bankers at Goldman Sachs. That is easier than you would think - they are very gunshy people right now.

In SL, don't ask unless you REALLY want to find out.

All LL has to do is rewrite the TOS so connecting to the LL Network with disallowed tools constitutes unauthorized network access and that every case will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and then LL makes good on it. As the kids get dragged from their bedrooms off to jail to the sound of their mothers wailing in lamentation then the word will get out and the thieves will flee from Second Life. This is the only solution and it will work.

Defend your empire or lose it. This is the lesson LL must learn.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is just the thing LL wants. Let's force all those pesky edgy and creative people out of business. Then we can set up a system for approval like the banking rules for content and commerce. It will be set up so that only a select few, who can guarantee the corporate friendly "predictable" experience will have the wherewithall to jump through the necessary hoops.

Some beancounters at LL may want this, but no one who understands their success to date will. If they throttle new creators, their world will end up looking dowdy and all the money they spent on Windlight etc. will be for naught.

There are many at LL who are not stupid. Let's hope they prevail.