Openspace deals... scams or great?

I've been seeing ads for owning an openspace on SL for only $1L + tier fees and I was wondering if this is a shameless scam or a great deal? How about the other deals out there were you only pay tier to rent an open sim.

Can they (open space sims) handle traffic from a business?

<--- me always wanted to own a sim but never had the $$

What do you plan to use the region for? With only a 1/4 of the prims spread across a whole region the place could seem mighty deserted unless you have a lot of water!

Since prims can usually be a primary concern (people want more prims than an Open Space sim has on 1/8 its size) they may not suit your build. On the other hand I've seen people set up three rentals spread far apart doling a few prims to wild life and trees and leaving the rest to the reclusive renters.

Depends on the tier. Iusually compare the cost per moth with the following variables:

Monthly cost per prim
Monthly cost per sqm
Purchase price of the land

These three numbers allow me to comapre different parcels objectively. To this you can add the intangibles such as the way the place looks, customer service, themes or not, covenants.. etc

Open Space sims can be a good deal at 1L if the monthly rent/tier is reasonable.

.d

1) you wont own it, youll be renting it from someone else. You cant currently own one unless you own a full sim.
2) We've just had a whole big debate or 50 about the use of these type of sims, some call them opens spaces, some call them voids.
3) Read the land store description for the use of these types of areas, many agencies have popped up over night renting these for whatever use..and not informing people of their limitations. Some people will argue there are no limitations
4)LL do not support these types of sims if there is a problem and it is not used in the manner which they have currently defined on their web site ie: OPEN spaces, not residential or commercial.

Im currently trialing one that has kindly been offered to me for a short time- to see how it goes.

Good luck!

It depends HUGELY on the type of business and the amount of traffic. If it's a simple store with only a handful of people at any time, you shouldn't notice any problems. If you want a crowded club with lots of scripted gadgets, I'd avoid an openspace sim. With an openspace sim, you'll have 1/4 the prims of a normal sim and 1/4 or a little less of the processing power of a normal sim.

Performance will be a lot more than a quarter of the processing power, closer to a third: /327/ad/272219/1.html

Many pure rental models plan on making the money back through tier versus upfront payments. Just because the island owner doesn't make you fork out the $250 doesn't mean it's a scam.

Here's what I've been doing, for comparison (and NO I am not offering openspaces at this time PERIOD, this is NOT an ad as I am booked solid) -

150 USD down, sliiiightly over 100 USD / month.

I instantly take a 100 USD loss as the regions are 250 each, and sequester 3 months tier (75 x 3 or 225 USD). Instant net loss of operating capital: 325 USD.

The first four months of 25 USD over tier gives me 'breakeven' - the region is paid for - now I'm only 225 USD in the hole.

Over the next nine months, I sloooowly recover the sequestered 225 USD.

Presuming perfect payments by the resident, I'll break even at month thirteen. That would be late September 2009. If they miss payments? 30% of residents seem to have issues ranging from 'economic crisis' to 'I forgot' - if you take anything like reality into account, expect to see your money back in 2010 sometime.

By 13 months there is a 75% chance the region owner is working hard to get outta there. Their fascination with owning region is pretty much sated, and they are in the 'been there done that' bitter oldbie stage. And now you've got an 'old region' - you'll be lucky to get 100 USD for it on 'resale.' More likely, nothing. Factor in payment problems and the whole thing is a wash.

Of course, you could charge more. But those who buy on impulse, leave on impulse too.

* * * * *

Why the above is relevant: that's based on my experiences with Caledon since 2006. It's up to you to decide if Caledon is just another estate, or perhaps closer to the most prized land on the entire grid. It might be difficult or rare to beat my stats - you decide.

Thus, if you are paying $L 1 for the region plus tier fees, the region owner is either pretty desperate, or not really thinking much about the long term financial situation.

If you are lucky, they are independently wealthy and you can ride on their coat-tails. If you aren't lucky, that estate will be in trouble fast. Seriously, who takes a gamble of: break even, or lose 75 USD/month - and has paid 250 USD just so they could do you this favour?

I leave it to the peanut gallery to decide if this is a stable situation or not.

Thanks for the advice, Des. I'll have a good think about it..

renting a void from sensual casanova and tbh i`m damn happy with it, no land purchase, great monthly price abit higher then des but no land purchase so happy and even have a friend move in as she would be renting otherwise

if you do your homework with prices etc and what people want to do with it, it`s no scam

i just have my house wich i never use and 80% of the land as a private sandbox while the friend can use what ever prims she wants as she doesn`t use much and a nice chunck of land for own settings

overal, 100% happy with "my" open sim and a shemeless plug for sensual



edit: fracking spelling

It's not a shady land sale at all, it's a rental. The owner can take back the land or sell the island from under you at anytime.
It's like all those BS ads for free land, it's like being offered a free house in RL then charged rent for it.
When was the last time in RL you saw a 3 bedroom brick highset house in the for sale section for $1?
If it's not mainland, it's a rental.

I paid 1k to 'purchase' my open space sim but my tier is a bit higher than a lot are charging but it was the way I chose to go. There are those that ask for a purchase price of what they paid to buy it with tier lower, but to me that is more dangerous as a renter as you cannot guarantee something wont happen to them.

Could buying for 1L be a scam? The most you can lose is your months tier, a scammer is more likely to grab the full purchase price from you rather than make their money back gradually on tier.

Why would you leave it laying around for three months?

I'm also not sure why you instantly take a $100 loss? First month's tier is included so you get $250 the first month which is the purchase price and break even the first month and the next month you're $25 in the green.

I'm sure I'm missing something .

How are you finding it Faithless?

I'm seriously considering. Point 1) is a bonus in my case now - I'll have my cash out of SL for Xmas shopping thanks!

Hmm, thank you everyone for your replies.

Makes me think further if an openspace would entirely fit our needs. What we are thinking of doing is going in with another business owner and creating a "mall" like area in the future. Unless we can find 2 openspace sims side by side and we rent one and the other person rents the other, 1 openspace probably won't be a feasible idea.

I'll keep looking around as we are planning this for a future business endeavor.

I'm also abit confused here.

You say your investment is $ 325. At the end of the 13 months, you have recovered this. Now you have two options....

1) Sell/abandon the region (pessimistically, for nothing). That releases the $ 225 tier reserve, so you collect $ 225 profit.

2) Keep the region and continue to collect $ 25 per month. This is like investing the 225 (above) on top of the 325.

So you have either (1) made 100*(225/325)^(13/12) = 67 % profit per annum on your 325.
Or (2) you have an investment giving a return of 100*(12*25)/550 = 55% annual profit.

Neither of these is breaking even! (even if you say the original cost was 425).

I certainly don't mean to suggest that either is unreasonable, given the risks of unoccupancy/default, and the work involved. I would guess that this situation is far enough from the average that it is still hard to break even.

I loovvvvvvvvveee mine. However, I use it for residential only. Nothing else. No scripting or lag issues. AND, yes I have heard plenty about sharing with 3 others on a server. If there an issue I would contact Jackson and a member Iof her staff i know will look into it. you should just as cognizant of the support staff just as you are in weighing the offer.

Search "Incircle" and go there. They have a club and mall there. It will give you an idea of what you can do with an open sim and how the lag will effect you.

I'm not leaving the region laying around for three months. But I *do* prepare for the possibility of a bad market - and immediately set aside three months tier for any region I get.

So in the case of an openspace, I set aside 75 USD times three immediately. That's 225 USD assigned for that region that is a buffer against disaster, tough times, you name it.

Any way you cut it, it will take 9 months to raise 225 USD from that region, if it's making 25 USD/month. A three month tier buffer that I consider absolutely mandatory. It's not a good idea to rent from a land baron whose estate is merely a week or two from going into default, if someone doesn't pay tier.

And I'm not asking for 250 up front - only 150. Basically I'm mitigating some of the up front risk for residents. Could I ask for 250 and get it? You betcha. But I don't ask for that much unless I have to. Yes I make money with Caledon, but people have to understand that if it was a 'money making' operation deep down, it wouldn't work. People smell that from a mile away, and flee. Regions with a corporate soul just don't work.



Let's consider both cases at the end of 13 months as you have suggested.

Case 1:

Caledon is solid full - I intentionally keep land a little scarce there, so I'm not going to sell/abandon the region out from under anybody. That would not be very nice! So the 225 reserve tier remains locked up.

But let's say the region was abandoned suddenly and I have a choice what to do with it. Now, consider the big picture - suddenly random chunks of Caledon start disappearing! I can assure you that such an action will have a *very* detrimental effect on occupancy overall.

So in this case the 225 USD starts shrinking, at a rate of 3 dollars a day. In a month, it's down to 150 USD, and so on. If I get a new resident after a month, it takes 3 months at 25 USD/mo 'profit' to recover the reserve capital.


Case 2:

At month fourteen, yep, I fiiiinally start making 25 USD a month. But you are missing a major factor here.

This is no 'investment' that has been lying around like 30 shares of microsoft - throw those 'per annum' calculations away, and start to factor in my time. Sir, I work my tail off.

Sure, there are those rare people who simply pay the tier meter and nothing ever happens.

Then there is the norm, where people have disputes with neighbours, have financial 'crises' - have loaded their parcel down with temp rezzers and then ask me why my regions suck, have a romance go bad so they need to swap to other land while they go goth/furry/whatever... yeah.

The first year is a wash, the second year I make 300 bucks. Basically 150 bucks a year across the first two years: or 12.50 a month. I promise you: in the history of many an openspace region, most people would *pay* 12:50 a month to just make the drama stop. No, more. Lots more.

So back to the investment analogy - it's sort of like owning microsoft stock, but with the requirement that you work 20 hours a week at a part time fast food drive thru window, to keep it.

* * * * *

Incidentally, for those still thinking 'hey great it's 300 bucks a month after the first year' - please note that I pay taxes.

Remember the 'work' part of the above? The US IRS determines that any income made by work is categorised as such. Anything requiring hours of week to maintain is no investment, according to them, and they deal every day with people trying to dodge payment of social security, medicare, unemployment, and lots of little other things. They will forcibly put your income in the 'wages' category unless you can unequivocably *prove* you just sit back and let the money flow in. Then they would hit you with capital gains, or something.

So I pay, plus fill out and file DE-6, DE-7, DE-88, form 940 and 941, W2 and W3 and pay a CPA for tax prep. So that 300 is really 200, after a blizzard of nonstop forms. Oh, and the CPA comes out of the 200 - but I've got enough regions that it's still 180 or so left over after him.

I have tier reserves in case of a bad market, and I pay my taxes so I won't be surprised by an audit. Your typical US-based land baron would immediately have to pay approximately 30% of whatever profits they ever made, plus massive fines, if it was found they just cashed out and didn't report. Think their estate would survive that? This is what land barony is really like.

The whole thing makes more sense now.

Thankies for explaining .

Lol this is ironic, plenty of people point to the upfront fee as a scam, damned if you do .....

Yes indeed, I appreciate that, and that is why the returns are well deserved. Also, of course, that the losses on an empty openspace are three times as fast as the profits on an occupied one! Drop to 75% occupancy and you get nothing for your work! Please don't think I am criticising you. Quite the contrary.

No worries, and I apologise if I came off tetchy - I get a lot of people thinking it's easy street and poking me for supposedly making high returns for no effort.

I was wondering if I was too conservatively paranoid for a couple years there, but the land market of the last few months convinced me otherwise.

I currently have an openspace plot I am using as a residential home. I paid L$ 1 for it, plus a weekly fee.

It's great as a residential space.

I'm sure that one of the reasons it's great is because there isn't much else on the sim. When I am there, I am often the only avatar on the sim. None of my neighbors seem to have anything extravagant on their lots. Residential building is part of the covenant and enforced (I saw a business pop up on the sim one day, and disappear the next day), so I don't expect to see anything from my neighbors other than residences.

I would be wary of using openspace for a business. For one thing, shops seem to need a high concetration of prims. For shops, it's usually the prims, and not the open space, that are at a premium. Also, shops tend to have more running scripts than a residence, and (if successful), draw a lot of avatars. Since open space sims are getting about a fourth of the computing resources of regular sims, I'd think it could roughly handle about one-fourth of the customer traffic. (There's another thread somewhere that has a lot of benchmark tests someone ran to compare open space to regular).

The only scam is when people are led into believing the $ make them owners of the land, when they are renting from a 3rd party
Whereas $250 spent on mainland makes them as close to owning land in SL as you can get.