Take 15,000 Linden .... and run

OK, I know that I probably can't progess this any further, but may I please indulge the kind readers of the board and have a little rant. Oh, and perhaps solicit some advice....

Just before the Havoc 4 release, I purchased an expensive (relatively) piece of equipment for 15,000 Linden. Very nice, did what it said on the box, and to be honest was particularly pleased with it - to the extent that it became the centerpiece of our new build on our Sim. Great, we got the best (product of its type) Linden Dollars can buy!!!

Then three days later, the infamous Havoc 4 release took place, and suddenly all the functionality of this particular piece of kit was removed - utterly and completely borked. So, I did what I think most of us could do - I contacted the creator and asked if they had a fix in the pipeline. "Sure", they said "It is the Linden's fault. We will work on fixing and distribute a new one in a week". And then .... silence.

And when I say "silence" I mean that not only the seller, but the whole team of people who created the component objects of this item have gone to ground. Like completely. A check on their profiles, followed by checking "last online" dates in some of the groups they belong(ed?) to shows that they've not been in world for at least three weeks now.

So, there we are - 15K down the drain. I can't "name and shame", given that that's against TOS (note that I have been careful not to mention even the type of product we're talking about). I don't see the point in raising an AR - seems like these people have just cut and run. So, before I start going off the deep end about "community of trust" or similar topics - what recourse have I got?

Incidentally, I've managed myself, with my rookie scripting skills, to get the object in question back to its full functionality - at least that much. But that in itself seems to speak volumes to the amount of work that these people are doing to fix the problem. Can anyone say "take the money and run"?

Anyway, any suggestions, or should I just be prepared to take it on the chin, and possibly develop a long term mistrust of a certain nationality (did I mention that these people are not English Speaking?)

Given that the Lindens still have not corrected many of the problems that Havok 4 introduced, the makers of your product might not yet be ABLE to fix their product. I know I have a bunch of things that no longer work right, and that the problem is directly because Havok 4 changed how those scripted things worked. At the low end are several free hug animators, and at the high end are some pretty expensive items. JIRA reports have been filed, but no results yet.

I wonder which nationality that would be?

* puts on a Samba CD to think about it... *

Ceera - I fully appreciate that Havoc 4 has caused utter chaos (didn't want to say "Havoc". I guess though that one of my grievances is the utter lack of communication, the absence of "hey, we're still here and still running into brick walls". Also, given that I've managed by myself to fix the thing, or replicate the running of it under Havoc 4 rules, surely people who are prepared to charge 15K L$ for an item must be able to do this as well?

At a very least, perhaps they should have withdrawn it from SLX?

Oh and Wildefire - the Samba won't help - go for something more along the lines of Beethoven or Wagner.

You bought scripted objects from dead German composers? No wonder you didn't get a reply.

Well, look on the bright side - you could hire out your services to fix this item for other people who dropped $15K and aren't getting a response from the creator.

In all fairness, the Lindens broke your item, not the creators. With that in mind, I understand your frustration with the creators not responding, but, as others have said, they could be studying up on how to fix it.

Even with rudimentary scripting skills, one could fix a borked script, but if a person flips hamburgers all their working life, they tend to get set on "the burger flips at three minutes" regardless of whether it might not be burnt if he flipped it at two and a half. You may have thought it outside the box that they have confined themselves in when you fixed it yourself.

A

It doesn't matter how it broke - taking money from people for a product that you know doesn't work is theft.

At the least, sellers of known broken products need to post a sign warning potential buyers that their product is broken, with no current estimate of when - or if - it will be fixed.

How anyone can rationalize that because LL broke it, it's ok to continue selling it, is beyond me. Taking money for a product that you know doesn't work is theft. Plain and simple.

Flame away

Stop ranting right this instant and take Puppet's advice (post #6).

Market your FixTheProduct product for all it's worth.

Not going to flame, but I will reiterate the OP's statement:



(I would bold the word "before" but LL borked the forums too) No one rationalized that it's OK to sell a broken product after LL broke it, but that it worked when it was purchased then LL broke it.

A

What can I say? I'm oooolllldddd.

Never mind

There have been many updates, that have broken countless products. No doubt, there will be still more updates and countless more broken products. Some will be fixed and some will not.

Not to mention server asset issues that eat inventory. Predatory landbots that ruthlessly snatch mistakenly priced parcels. Crashes. Lag. All sorts of things can and will cost you.

You managed to fix the problem. And others have pointed out that you now posess a marketable commodity. I'd say you came out ahead on this one.

Oh, and for the record, I LIKE H4. My planes fly better and my flying spaceship home exists as one linkset. Go Lindens!

I don't know if this would help, but have you checked the JIRA? If there's an entry relevant to this expensive product, that might give you some insight about the status. If there isn't an entry relevant to the item in question, then create one. Then IM Sidewinder Linden and let him know the JIRA number and invite him to come and have a look at the product.

-Atashi

It's possible that the 'team' is actually just one person with a bunch of alts, in which case he or she may have some RL issue taking precedence. Without knowing for sure, I wouldn't assume they're avoiding or ignoring their customers.

"to which they belong"

as a builder myself, i would be utterly heartbroken to find that a complex item i created had been rendered obsolete by the flick of a linden switch. I would, of course, want to update the item to make it function again, but i'm almost sure this would be an arduous process. I might even give up. considering this is a team that built it, the chances that one of them DID give up are greatly increased. so maybe the rest of them need to find a new partner to help.

it's not the builder's fault. think of it as VCR. new technology has made it obsolete. would you expect the manufacturer of your vcr to give you a DVR, DVD or some such product because tape is obsolete?

Thanks to all of you for your contributions so far - and yes, I'm learning to slowly count to whatever that number that comes after nine is.

To the people that suggested that I had a marketable commodity - "Hey guys, I can fix your ACME Doowinglewodger" - wouldn't this lead me into an even deeper set of troubles? After all, I'd need first to publicly name ACME (against TOS) and then go wildcatting around the place fixing something - probably drawing down heaps of Teutonic scorn and anger.

And yes, I absolutely acknowlege that on H-Day minus three, the thing worked beautifully. I guess my outrage is that they're still trying to sell it on SLX - every little 15K helps I guess.

And for the person who suggested above that the "team" was actually one person with a stack of alts - well, given that two of the team are partnered, that's given me just the best belly laugh of the day. It sure puts a new understanding on their customer service attitude of "we got your money, now go BLEEP yourself".

Anyway - seven, eight, nine ... damn, lost count, start again

A friend of mine lives an a SteamPunk airship. Prior to Havok4 it was fine. After the update, you could no longer walk through it. Each compartment was sealed off even though there was no visible walls. He contacted the creator. She said it was a known H4 bug. She promptly sent him a temporary work-around version, but said he should go back to the original once the known H4 bug was fixed.

She did this even though neither could find the original trans report. The original purchase was over 3 months old. That is great customer service!

I just said it was possible. And you can partner your alts.

If they happened to be a RL couple instead, one's personal issues would probably affect the other as well.

You purchased what you say was a perfectly fine item that worked very well for you. Then later on, Linden Lab broke the item.

I suppose it's easier or feels safer to get angry at some anonymous resident rather than at Linden Lab.

Not at all. You can name names, just not here in the forums. Mustn't libel or slander, of course. But saying something is broken...when it IS...is not libel or slander, just the truth.

Yes, you run a good chance of getting the makers mad at you. 'Hey...WE were gonna fix that...Real Soon Now." So what? Make a little profit from their slowness. It's not a crime, it's Just Bidness. If they call you on it, offer to sell them the fix. Set whatever price you think is fair. Me, I'd charge them L$15,000

Let me give you a customer's point of view. I have a Thing...less expensive than yours...that has got itself broken by Havok 4. Every few days it stops working and I have to re-set it. I think it's the ||Target Omega rotation bug, but I'm no scripter. I notified the maker, but he doesn't seem to be keen on issuing an updated version any time soon.

Well, OK...but if tomorrow some slick salesman drops by and says, "I can fix your Thing for L$100. Just drop this new script into it", guess what? SOLD, dude!

I agree, the Lindens broke it, not the product creator. It isn't the product creators responsibility to fix something LL broke, nor is it even possible in some cases.

The llTargetOmega bug is a good example. LL has broken it several times, fixed it once before but broke it again. Several weeks ago they said they thought they were close to a fix for it, but they have not managed to fix it yet. Prior to that they admitted they were not sure why it stopped working, apparently they still are not sure.

I have been making products in SL using most of my spare time for the last 3 years. If tomorrow LL broke them all, is it my responsibility to spend the next 3 years trying to fix them all? and do it for free?

When LL breaks something, hurt not only the buyers of products but they destroy the hundreds of hours of time that the creators have invested in making the products.

LL borking the product is no reason to get mad at the designers - refusing to interact with customers is. And continuing to sell the defective product seems to be a worse problem.

Of course, if there are RL troubles (or just a team of builders/scripters crying in their beer at seeing their hard work down the tubes) I suppose taking down the SLX listing may not be tops on their list of priorities - but spending that much for a product that doesn't work would be a problem for future customers, so... really bad business on their part.

Hey, maybe you could turn this around and use it as an advertising point - "the only WORKING [product X] in SL!"

Or contact the designers (assuming they haven't muted you for continuing ask for a fix), let them know you have a solution, invite them to see it in action, and offer to sell them the fix...

That really sucks for you, but to speak of them in such a way as to suggest a paticular nationality is to be all in whole mistrusted is just wrong.

EDIT: Must learn to read ALL of the thread.

The post wasn't about idiot Germans or any other racist remark. It was about lousy customer service no matter what language. There are idiot Americans, British, etc. out there, and plenty of them.

SL seems to be more and more populated by mediocre people of low ethical standing - a high percentage of whom are in for the quick buck and will stop at nothing to get it. And the only solution being offered is to behave as unethical as they are, by selling a "fix" and undermining other businesses? Puh-leeze!

Why are we being punished for asking for simple courtesy from someone we gave a large amount of money to? If you're going to conduct business, in RL or SL, you'd better be prepared to give people what they pay for. And if there is a problem, that means communication at the very least.

Scripters tend to be airheads in the first place, in my experience, and I understand a delay in a fix. But rudeness, deceit, non-communication and unethical behavior in any business are unacceptable; and it doesn't matter if it's SL or RL, or what language a person uses.

Too bad so many of you are so easily mollified by sloppy work and mediocre service.