Well, I guess Ageplay is now Officially banned
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                     Jacques Groshomme 
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                         05-10-2007 17:08 
                        From: Lhorentso Nurmi SL is private entity owned by LL and free speech as a consitutional right does not apply, I'm afraid.    Hence the bits in the TOS such as...    YOU UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT LINDEN LAB HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NOT THE OBLIGATION, TO REMOVE ANY CONTENT (INCLUDING YOUR CONTENT) IN WHOLE OR IN PART AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE AND WITH NO LIABILITY OF ANY KIND.    FTW.  Game. Set. Match.  
                        
                    
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                     Mickey McLuhan 
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                         05-10-2007 17:08 
                        From: Tybalt Brando Well you could always do a search for Child on SLX and tell me if you think those are adults? Um.. yeah... I kinda DO think they're adults. In fact, I assume that the person that made the AV is an adult. But that's not what I said. Would a search for Child on SLX result in something  indistinguishable from an actual child? The section I quoted, by the way, is from YOUR link.  
                        
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                     Tybalt Brando 
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                         05-10-2007 17:13 
                        From: Mickey McLuhan Um.. yeah... I kinda DO think they're adults. In fact, I assume that the person that made the AV is an adult.
  But that's not what I said. Would a search for Child on SLX result in something indistinguishable from an actual child?
  The section I quoted, by the way, is from YOUR link. So they're just depicting small adults with child like features then?  
                        
                    
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                     October McLeod 
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                         05-10-2007 17:15 
                        From: Tybalt Brando So they're just depicting small adults with child like features then? Would you seriously not be able to distinguish an AV on SL from a real person?  
                        
                    
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                     Io Zeno 
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                         05-10-2007 17:16 
                        From: Mickey McLuhan Akchally...   (   “child pornography” means any visual depiction, including any photograph, film, video, picture, or computer or computer-generated image or picture, whether made or produced by electronic, mechanical, or other means, of sexually explicit conduct, where—   (A) the production of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct;   (B) such visual depiction is a digital image, computer image, or computer-generated image that  is, or is indistinguishable from, that of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; or   (C) such visual depiction has been created, adapted, or modified to appear that an identifiable minor is engaging in sexually explicit conduct.    From:  http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002256----000-.html  I guess the question is: Are Second Life avatars  indistinguishable from an image of "a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct"? The UK has a similar law, meant to stop people creating fake child porn, essentially, through photoshop and such.  
                        
                    
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                     Ketter McAllister 
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                         05-10-2007 17:16 
                        From: October McLeod Would you seriously not be able to distinguish an AV on SL from a real person? Some people have problems distinguishing SL from RL.  
                        
                    
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                     Mickey McLuhan 
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                         05-10-2007 17:17 
                        indistinguishable
  Not distinguishable; not capable of being perceived, known, or discriminated as separate and distinct; hence, not capable of being perceived or known 
  A child AV is NOT indistinguishable from an actual child, not is it an ACTUAL depiction of a child. 
                        
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                     Atashi Yue 
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                         05-10-2007 17:17 
                        From: Mickey McLuhan What are you talking about?
  You said "the consensus was to ban child av's". That's incorrect.  The rest... huh? Just a few: From: someone 
  1. stop people being able to make their avatars be depictions of children. there is NO reason to depict yourself as a child in Second Life. NONE.
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  The only real way to get rid of this problem is to ban all ageplay in sl. I cant stand any ageplay, it bugs me alot to see it in sl. As long as they allow ageplay they will always be people that will do sexual ageplay.
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  Is it not easier to ban child avs all together than to require every resident to be verified? I know that not all child avs engage in sexual age play, but which is the lesser evil - have a minority of avs not be able to be children or require every resident to be verified to use the whole of the grid?
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  Sex with children is disgusting in Second Life, adults or not. I wish childrens avatars were not allowed here especially since everyone is supposed to be over 18 anyway
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 etc. Again Mickey, how do you think this will be enforced?  Ageplay police?  Who gets to decided what is and what is not appropriate conduct for a child av played by an adult?  Should they be forced to stay in G rated areas (that don't exist at this point)?  
                        
                    
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                     October McLeod 
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                         05-10-2007 17:17 
                        From: Ketter McAllister Some people have problems distinguishing SL from RL. Evidently so.  
                        
                    
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                     Tybalt Brando 
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                         05-10-2007 17:18 
                        From: October McLeod Would you seriously not be able to distinguish an AV on SL from a real person? Okay you I have to stop talking to before I lose my religion. It's obvious you probably have a kid AV tucked away somewhere.  
                        
                    
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                     October McLeod 
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                         05-10-2007 17:20 
                        From: Tybalt Brando Okay you I have to stop talking to before I lose my religion. It's obvious you probably have a kid AV tucked away somewhere. Actually no, but thanks for assuming.  
                        
                    
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                     Mickey McLuhan 
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                         05-10-2007 17:20 
                        From: Atashi Yue Again Mickey, how do you think this will be enforced?  Ageplay police?  Who gets to decided what is and what is not appropriate conduct for a child av played by an adult?  Should they be forced to stay in G rated areas (that don't exist at this point)? What I'm not understanding is why you're asking ME this stuff? From: Tybalt Brando Okay you I have to stop talking to before I lose my religion. It's obvious you probably have a kid AV tucked away somewhere. Wow... that's nice. Now a disgusting accusation because someone's arguing with you? That's low.  
                        
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                     Brenda Connolly 
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                         05-10-2007 17:22 
                        From: Tybalt Brando Okay you I have to stop talking to before I lose my religion. It's obvious you probably have a kid AV tucked away somewhere.  Sorry Religion is the next target....May sweeps is going on...gotta get BIG ratings.  
                        
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                     Tybalt Brando 
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                         05-10-2007 17:23 
                        From: Brenda Connolly Sorry Religion is the next target....May sweeps is going on...gotta get BIG ratings. Southern term for losing your temper. But yeah, religion is always fun to poke.  
                        
                    
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                     Yumi Murakami 
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                         05-10-2007 17:24 
                        From: Mickey McLuhan indistinguishable
  Not distinguishable; not capable of being perceived, known, or discriminated as separate and distinct; hence, not capable of being perceived or known 
  A child AV is NOT indistinguishable from an actual child, not is it an ACTUAL depiction of a child. I think you have missed something in that law, though.  As posted before, someone was sent to jail for having anime images.  An anime child is clearly not indistinguishable from an actual child, yet they were still convicted. I think part of this is that the law also says that if the image is "created" to portray an "identifiable" child, it's illegal.  In other words, if you made your avatar to look like something which could be identified as a child, (no matter if you  intended it that way or not), it's illegal to use it for sexual conduct.  
                        
                    
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                     Tybalt Brando 
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                         05-10-2007 17:25 
                        From: Mickey McLuhan  Wow... that's nice. Now a disgusting accusation because someone's arguing with you? That's low.
 It's not really an accusation. More along the lines of a calculated observation. And at this point they were just trying to get me on semantics.  But here we go. Find me a link where it says that Age play is....LEGAL.  
                        
                    
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                     Conan Godwin 
                    In ur base kilin ur d00ds 
                    
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                         Amd what about the other way around? 
                        05-10-2007 17:25 
                        Now the only question remaining is; are they going to do about all the real life 14 year old girls posing as adults to works as SL prostitutes?
  Any plans, LL, to deal with them? 
                        
                    
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                     Ketter McAllister 
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                         05-10-2007 17:26 
                        From: Brenda Connolly Sorry Religion is the next target....May sweeps is going on...gotta get BIG ratings. Will that mean, as a result, avatars will be banned from yelling "OMG!" at each other from across a sim? If so, I'm all for it.     
                        
                    
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                     Mickey McLuhan 
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                         05-10-2007 17:27 
                        From: Yumi Murakami I think you have missed something in that law, though.  As posted before, someone was sent to jail for having anime images.  An anime child is clearly not indistinguishable from an actual child, yet they were still convicted.
  I think part of this is that the law also says that if the image is "created" to portray an "identifiable" child, it's illegal.  In other words, if you made your avatar to look like something which could be identified as a child, (no matter if you intended it that way or not), it's illegal to use it for sexual conduct. I'm no lawyer, but I've read that law five times tonight. It seems pretty clear to me. Indistinguishable is indistinguishable.  
                        
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                     Tybalt Brando 
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                         05-10-2007 17:28 
                        From: Conan Godwin Now the only question remaining is; are they going to do about all the real life 14 year old girls posing as adults to works as SL prostitutes?
  Any plans, LL, to deal with them? Actually had that happen to somebody I know. He fell in "Love" before he knew how old she was. When he found out he freaked, reported her, etc etc. By that time she had taken half his stuff in their house etc etc.  I keep making fun of him for being hoodwinked by a middle schooler.  
                        
                    
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                     Ketter McAllister 
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                         05-10-2007 17:28 
                        From: Conan Godwin Now the only question remaining is; are they going to do about all the real life 14 year old girls posing as adults to works as SL prostitutes?
  Any plans, LL, to deal with them? Yeah.  Go read the blog.  Age verification for access to mature areas and content.  No sex in PG areas. And I doubt they're 14 year old girls.  More like 54 year old guys posing as SL prostitutes who say they're 14 year old girls in RL.  
                        
                    
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                     Tybalt Brando 
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                         05-10-2007 17:29 
                        From: Ketter McAllister Will that mean, as a result, avatars will be banned from yelling "OMG!" at each other from across a sim? If so, I'm all for it.    Also we need to ban the people that are lazy and spell like: You = u Are = R Too,two,to = 2 etc etc.  Also, "Lulz" should be outlawed.  
                        
                    
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                     SqueezeOne Pow 
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                         Justify Your "Love" 
                        05-10-2007 17:30 
                        From: October McLeod No, it isn't a computer generated child. It could be whatever the person behind it says it is. It could just as easily be a computer-generated hobbit, or a computer-generated short, slightly-built adult.  You're looking for loopholes and technicalities which is moot since LL can ban Devo hats if they wanted to (I hope they don't...I like my Devo hat!).   You've also been shown the legal evidence showing that computer generated child sex is illegal. You aren't interested in admitting what every respectable adult already knows.  But then again, Hitler probably didn't think he was doing wrong, either.  
                        
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                     October McLeod 
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                         05-10-2007 17:30 
                        From: Tybalt Brando It's not really an accusation. More along the lines of a calculated observation. No, it's an accusation. One meant to demonize me. From: someone And at this point they were just trying to get me on semantics. No semantics, pointing out something you clearly don't seem to understand.  From: someone But here we go. Find me a link where it says that Age play is....LEGAL. You're making the claim, the burden is on you to prove it.  
                        
                    
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                     Tybalt Brando 
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                         05-10-2007 17:30 
                        
                        
                    
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