Are some people really so stupid as to expect privacy in SL?

Ban lines can and do extend into roadways and waterways because of the way parcels are laid out.

I'm not opposed to that. Courtesy and consideration are great. But just like in RL there is a point at which they stop. I cannot sit on my front porch and yell at you for walking down the sidewalk and claim to be courteous. In fact if anything I'm breaking the law because you have a right to be there, unless I have taken out a restraining order specifically against you. However, your ability to walk down that sidewalk does not mean that you can leave that sidewalk and enter my private property with impunity. I can put up a "no trespassing" sign and expect you to comply. In SL that no trespassing sign is ban lines. They have the added benefit of being easily enforcable because it's physically impossible for you to pass them. No discourtesy is intended there, it's merely a means to remind the passing person that this is private property and should be respected as such. Some of us don't have any problem with you being able to see the property but you don't belong on it. Since there are people who refuse to recognize this simple fact, they have made it necessary to pre-emptively force them to stay out. There is only one way to do so. Blacklist everybody and whitelist the people you want to be there.



Traffic isn't the only benefit of owning land alongside a Linden road. Perhaps they're a driving enthusiast who merely wants to drive from their land straight onto the roadway and go out motoring. Seems to me like something worth paying a premium for if they want it bad enough. Hardly something which trumps their desire to keep the general public off their own property.


If the effects of lag bother you that much while you're driving on Linden roads, then why are you on the roads?

That should be fixed... if there is a JIRA on that (or someone starts one) I'll happily vote on it (for whatever that's worth).

I bet you could count on one hand the number of driving enthusiasts in SL who put up banlines on a parcel next to a road. It really is that awful for drivers.

Where have I done anything even vaguely analogous?
In SL the no trespassing sign is a no trespassing sign. I respect those. I respect the sanctity of houses. I respect locked doors in theme builds that otherwise would not seem private. Anyone who is willing to grant you privacy in SL will do the same.

Ban lines go beyond "no trespassing" signs. They are combination electric fence and anti-aircraft guns and tank traps and "severe tire damage" spikes. They are massive overkill, and yet ironically they don't actually do anything to protect you from people who ARE interested in violating your privacy.

So the analogy, "ban lines are no trespassing signs" falls down.

If you put them up innocent of the effects, no, there's no discourtesy. Even when they're set up around an empty parcel that's never used, which is the most common situation, if the person didn't realize what they were doing that's simply naivete.

Then they're benefiting from traffic... in fact they ARE traffic. I'm not referring to traffic statistics here, I'm referring to actual traffic. People traveling along the road. I'm speaking English, not geek.

In fact the game-specific meaning of traffic never occurred to me because THAT kind of traffic isn't something you get much of from being on a Linden road.

Okay, okay! Sheesh! I apologized for the misunderstanding. Sorry.
What more do you want? Blood?

I didn't understand exactly what you wrote. My bad. I retract the statement I made in response to the post I misunderstood.

Can we go back to the "you trying to land your plan and it getting blown up" thing?

You are absolutely right with this.
Banlines are exactly that.

And they're still legal.

It's the same thing as the "ban lines on Linden roads" thing, and the "drifting across a ban line from my own land and getting orbited" thing. Its' the "You can't avoid running into ban lines and getting screwed over, so they cause problems for innocent avatars, OK" thing. It's all the same thing.

And please don't tell me "they're legal" again, because that's irrelevant to anything I've actually said.

See, I see it differently.

You trying to land your plane and getting blown up when you hit a banline is YOUR actions causing you to go somewhere you're not allowed.
Lag, drifting, stuff that ISN'T your intention?
That's something different.

In RL, those ban lines would be a fence that electrocuted an innocent passerby on the sidewalk who happened to stumble and fall against your boundary.
That's somewhat OTT compared to a sign.
In SL, you can rezz a sign.
In RL, if you put up an electric fence right up along the sidewalk, you would be required to remove it - although, maybe in your jurisdiction the authorities and courts are a bit more laid back about public safety.

Because the controls in SL are flakey, because my plane drifts, because of lag, because there's no way to tell if I need to be on 270 or 272. I'm landing on MY LAND, and clipping the edge (just the edge) of someone else's ban box because there's no indication it's there. It may not have BEEN there yesterday, and even if I know it's there it's still hard to avoid.

No trespass. No intention to trespass. No potential for harm.

Because I can.
Because they are legal.

These were the justifications for ad-farming and traffic-bot running.

What has being legal ever had to do with doing the worthy or right thing?
"It's not against the law" is the refuge of the scoundrel.


Add: For the benefit of those who have turned of viewing of Forum sigs, here's mine:
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Maggie: We give our residents a lot of tools, to build, create, and manage their lands and objects. That flexibility also requires people to exercise judgment about when things should be used.
http://www.ace-exchange.com/home/story/BDVR/589
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If the only justification something has is itself then it is already beaten.

Simply ask for a fix so banlines don't make your vehicle crash while sending you across 10 sims. Simply ask for banlines to work like a NORMAL PRIM WALL when vehicles are involved, instead of sending people home.
Is that so bloody hard to ask for? Ask for banlines to be FIXED and act more "friendly"instead of demanding for their REMOVAL.
If Banlines acted more like a hard fence instead of an electric wall when flying into them, this constant whining about them wouldn't exist.
However, as much as you dislike the simple fact, banlines do suit a purpose. Not optimally, but they are "as good as it gets".

Though I must admit, I don't mind for some people to experience the electrocution routine instead of the bouncy wall one that would be more ideal overall. Especially those who insist they have RIGHTS over OTHER PEOPLES PROPERTIES.
You don't, grow up, stop whining. If you're looking for a solution, then look for a bloody solution that is acceptable to ALL involved, not just egotastic you. And SUPPORT that solution, VOTE for the JIRA. Don't take for granted that someone else created it, and that Linden Labs will look at it. Don't even take for granted that others will vote "for you". Expect others to be as sorry lazy arses as you are, so expect no votes, no matter how perfect the idea is. Unless you start to change yourself.

Oh, and for the "electric fence" analogy:
RL doesn't have a start new game / TP home option after the Game Over part. SL does.

Why? Wouldn't it be better to ask for something better than ban lines instead? If you're going to wish for the impossible, why not wish for something that works? Something that includes actual privacy?

You stil won't get it, but it'll be less of a wasted wish.

I can tell you've never felt an electric fence.

That's been suggested a thousand times.. always falls on deaf ears. Any solution that fixes their concerns while retaining landowners rights to keep random people out is simply not giving them what they want. They dont want to be kept out at all, don't want to have to go around for any reason, think they have some right to view other peoples stuff at close range, and expect it all for free on someone elses dime. That is IMO the crux of it all, and it's a real eye-opener.

The last big debate on this over a year ago got me to drop all the banlines on all my lands. It was an acceptance on my part that perhaps I shouldn't be restricting people from passing through, and so they've remained down ever since. Reading this latest iteration of it though, and after hearing the justifications and unreasonably selfish attitudes of the very people I sympathized with last time, the banlines are going back up. All the way to 768m this time using a rotating black list ban, possibly with angry orbs above that if I, as landowner, so choose. Please ensure seatbacks and traytables are in the upright position, and enjoy your flight!

Here's the thing.

Planes don't "land and take off" in populated areas, in real life. They use a landing strip.

You want to use people's houses and yards for your landing strip?

Good grief, I would hate to have some of these people as neighbours in RL.

Them: "Your child just threw her ball on to my lawn"
You: "Sorry, it was just an accident, she was playing catch and it went awry"
Them: "I don't care for your excuses. I am now going to erect a 20m wall around my property to ensure that this terrible thing cannot happen again"
You: "Umm why?"
Them: "Because I have the God damn right to do so!"
You: "Ummm K"

But the thing is, there ARE neighbors like that - in RL and in SL.

Arguing back and forth won't change it a bit. What is it, 50 pages now?

I guess my hope is that we can all look a little closer at our own motivations when seen through others' eyes, but, people only seem to be digging their heels in more, instead. Even people who are usually unemotional.

When has that stopped us? Or anyone else in the human race for that matter?

Why don't we start another thread on it?

YAYYYYYYYYY!

Lol.



Neeever.

But it does keep our mind off our/the World's REAL problems.

BINGO, we have a winner!

1. Many landing strips, in real life, are in populated areas. I used to live under the glide path.
2. I bought about 1/6th of a sim for my landing strip.
3. If nobody could ever get hurt by a falling plane in RL, people would be taking off from their driveways and gliding down to land at their neighbors all the time.