Revisiting Bay City

I'll be in 'bout two hours from now. If yer still about, drop me an IM.

Also, some handy ideas: http://images.google.com/images?q=art+deco+clock+tower

Mari

yay! will do =)

What I would like to see is LL use some of the abandoned land to provide content sporadically all over the grid.

I loved wandering around Bay City and driving from West Haven to there but
sadly most of road side lots I would love to own are way, way out of my budget
range. West Haven, Shermerville have few lots that are cheaper considering what
they were over the summer but they are still close to 170 usd or 50k in Lindens for
512m lot.
Does owning a Bay City lot mean you get more shopping traffic or sales?
Just curious. I would love to live their someday regardless of this personally.

That is a great idea.

Actually, I have not sold a thing in my Bay City store. It does, however, serve as one heck of efficient yet rather expensive LM giver. =)

Not that sales there mater a bit to me. =)

Personally I enjoy the challenge of building something that fits the theme(even if I struggle at it, Deco is not my thing). Even tearing it down, like i did today, and adjusting the parcel to the surroundings builds.

I suppose from the outside it may end up looking like a showcase, but to me its my contribution to the city and those that visit it.

And heck its only a 1024, and as such 10usd a month. Once you get past the entry price it is clear sailing. (this in no way justifies the insane flipper prices there atm)

I saw lovely 1536m near protected land andwater I think in West Haven but its for
sale for 200,000L$ that is 760 usd.
I would love to have place like that but I am sorry 760 usd for 1536 just
seems too much to me.
I guess if you can spend 380 usd or more for Bay City or similar lot that is great for
those who can.

I hear ya. I'm glad I got lucky with gettin my plot.



What you said. Actually, I have sold a few things from my store. not a great amount, but some. Really, I'm jes glad to be a part of the area an do stuff there. That I have a store I can put there an sometimes sell stuff is like a bonus to me.

An Alisha - if you need a hand with Deco, lemme know. Really. It's a fave of mines.

Looks like LL has it's own plans for bringing some new activity to Bay City.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/New_Port_Yacht_Sales_Lottery

I got the notice on my log in screen to search for "Linden Lottery Information" on the wiki and found that plus two other lotteries for commercial space.

Did everyone but me know this was coming?

Wow I looked all over the wiki for that, like it said, and couldn't find it... Thank you Nimue ;-D

They should give them for free to people who own land at bay city, not using a lottery, I think most of the plots will be flipped and will stay for sale for ages with a rotating sign ruining the view of peoples who spent 200k to buy their nice view plot.

Those plots aren't sold, so can't be "flipped." It works much like the Luna Oaks and Busy Ben's lottery.

I entered the others, but not having a boat or seaplane for sale, did not go for the New Port Yacht Clup auction.

Also, in the spirit of "Busy Ben's," they really shoulda named it "Michael's Mooring"

I wondered about those lottery plots but they don't seem to get a whole lot of traffic either
from what I read.
Or maybe they do?

hmm.... I wonder how long it will take to build a fleet of Dingy's?

I'm sure it wouldn't take long to turn a few low prim prefabs into arks?

Sometime i sell there... but i can't tell you how many (if there's any) tp's BC would caugth... i do things that must be looked inworld (rezzed) so ppl would TP to my main store instead of purchasing in place.
I've paied those two parcels alot.. and it wasn't for business, but more sentimental, since i've contributed to build it, i loved to "preserve" the enviroment (and other of us did the same).

I've had something on my mind that I wanted to bring up. I know it's only been about three months since this thread was started and all that, so not much should have changed. But I'm reading what you guys are saying about how wonderful Bay City had shaped up to be and I just don't see it.

Let me explain - last time I visited Bay City, before this weekend, was a short time after Mari opened her store there. At the time there was lots of empty land, and on the land that did have builds, most of the builds were ugly. Well wait, let me rephrase - some of the builds were very well done, and honestly would have looked wonderful in -another- sim, but in Bay City they just looked bad. And the rest of the builds were just plain badly done. I remember walking next to a bizarre Japanese geisha-house-themed thing, with a statue spamming the area with music and a large pond out in front. The pond had the kind of water that makes a splashing sound when you step into it. I know this not because I stepped into the pond, but because I walked down the municipal street adjacent to the pond and made splashing sounds because the splash-making prim extended under the street. At the time, Bay City was the province of land-flippers and exorbitant prices, and even the odd set of ban lines surrounding big squares of empty grass. It was the general opinion at the time that despite the best intentions of the Lindens, the place had failed because the residents who bought land there, by and large, simply did not care about "the theme" - either because they didn't want to do anything with the land but sell it anyway, or because they already had a build in mind and weren't going to let some silly "theme" get in the way of things. I remember standing on Mari's construction site, looking up at the huge eyesore that overshadowed (and still overshadows) her plot, wondering, "how is anybody ever going to see Mari's store with that thing in the way? Her build doesn't stand a chance." It made me sad.

So this past weekend, while playing the Linden-heart-finding game, I was checking out Bay City because it made sense to me that there would be some heart boxes there. I found one in the airship tower, which was the first place I looked in Bay City. I figured there might be at least one more somewhere in the vicinity, because I remembered from a while ago that there were a generous number of Linden attractions in Bay City, and I wanted to hit them all up.

As I flew over Bay City, a question kept running over and over in my mind. The question was, "what happens when you give somebody enough prims for two large parcels, but only give them one medium-sized parcel to use them in?" The answer, of course, is that the builders will stack the prims and build -upwards-. And that's what Bay City is - it's a land of skyscrapers and towers, and generally really-tall builds. Huge, tall builds. Multitudes of them. And none of these skyscrapers are built to theme - not a single one, so far as I could see. The fugly tower next to Mari's plot seems to have met another fugly tower from someone else's plot, had freaky tower-sex, and spawned a whole vast brood of fugly towers that have overrun the landscape, and now not only can you not see MARI's store unless you're right next to it, you can't see ANY small-to-mid-sized builds.

I tried flying through this total mess attempting to find the Linden spots that I knew were somewhere around, but didn't know exactly where or even which particular sims they were in. I found the theater - by accident (it still doesn't seem to be showing any movies, sadly). I couldn't find the archaeological site. I couldn't find the bowling alley (is it still called "Hot Balls"?). I remembered, back when Bay City wasn't built up yet, seeing some kind of mad scientist's ransacked laboratory, littered with diary pages raving about attacking moles. I couldn't remember exactly what it looked like, other than that it was a mid-sized odd-looking old "tower" of some kind, but I just plain gave up trying to find it this weekend because EVERYTHING IN BAY CITY is an odd-looking tower, of varying sizes. I couldn't even find the (nonworking) Linden playground. I thought sure there would be a heart box at at least one of these places - maybe there was, but I didn't get it because I couldn't find these places.

OK, maybe I'm being unfair. There ARE a couple of builds that fit in with the theme - that aren't ultra-modern twisty glass skyscrapers or imposing neo-classical Greek temples-cum-clothing stores. But they're so few and far between that unless you KNOW they're there and worth looking for, you're going to be turned away from Bay City because at first glance the place looks like a completely failed theme. I'd even venture to say that someone who doesn't already know what the theme is supposed to be would never be able to deduce it by walking around the place. I'm sorry - and I've read the thread and understand that a lot of people are working hard to try and bring the area back, but there's a very long way to go in my opinion. I'm just calling it like I see it.

Hmn... the eyesore in question has been gone for a couple weeks now. It's an empty plot behind me now. Of course, this gives me a view of the aforementioned out-of-theme Asian build from the same land owner...

So this past weekend, while playing the Linden-heart-finding game, I was checking out Bay City because it made sense to me that there would be some heart boxes there. I found one in the airship tower, which was the first place I looked in Bay City. I figured there might be at least one more somewhere in the vicinity, because I remembered from a while ago that there were a generous number of Linden attractions in Bay City, and I wanted to hit them all up.



The mad scientist's lab is in Bay City - Moloch. The archaeological site and the playground are in Imaginario. The bowling alley (Yes, still Hot Balls) is in Handa, right along Route 66.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Bay%20City%20-%20Moloch/130/47/25
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Bay%20City%20-%20Imaginario/245/146/25
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Bay%20City%20-%20Imaginario/227/241/25
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Bay%20City%20-%20Handa/98/237/26

The Suzanne Vega's Guitar things to be currently playing in the theater, which is different from when I was there last week (then it was some thing on businesses in SL).

An ya, there were some hearts in town. Out in front of the theater, on the airship mooring, a trio handful of them in the channel sims, an so on. One of the golds was found in the asylum.



I agree about the theme.

Within the Bay City Alliance, as well as some other issues, we're hashing out a set of guidelines penned by yours truly to address the theme and other issues, while working with a representative from th' Lab on what sort of enforcement would be allowed for such, and how to best balance that with the rights of landowners.

An yes, it's gonna be a long way. There are some issues with eyesores here and there, as well as permanently vacant plots and stuff. We've had the dubious pleasure of seeing a number of examples of what doesn't work in Bay City over the last seven months, an are now makin' a lot of big moves to try an get this thing workin'.

Will it *ever* be fully to theme? I doubt it. Much like Shermerville will always have stores nestled in the middle of suburbia, Nova Albion's "dense urban environment" will always have patches of unused land, and so on. We can work to get things closer to how many would like to see Bay City look.

Is it? I was almost sure I saw it. Your store is in Imaginario, right? By the canal? I admit I didn't fly directly over that way, but I seem to remember seeing a big skyscraper over there still. But you would know better than me - I got so fed up with the place I probably wasn't paying much attention.

So what happened in Nautilus? I spent a little more time overflying Nautilus than Bay City, to be sure (it's bigger, I think, for one thing), and -most- of the builds there are certainly Greco-Roman inspired, which is what the theme of Nautilus was supposed to be, right? How did that happen in Nautilus and not Bay City? Was it a case of the Lindens learning something from Bay City, and applying that to Nautilus?

That's not rhetorical, either; I'm genuinely curious. Is there some kind of covenant on Nautilus? How did they manage to keep the land from being bought by real estate companies and flippers, and make sure it was bought by people who wanted to actually use it? How did they get people to conform? I'll admit there are a few odd-ball builds, like this one huge, dark, out-of-place Gothic tower along the south coast (that gets cool points for having an awesome map of Nautilus in it, I have to concede, and which probably wouldn't look so off if it weren't all black), but by and large the place is thematic. Fly up the canal and you won't see too much that jumps out at you as THIS IS WRONG, the way things in Bay City are.

Thanks, by the way, for the SLURLs. I want to check those places out again. And I'm sorry if I come off as overhanded in my criticism of Bay City - it's true that I don't really have a horse in that race the way you do Mari. It's just that when Bay City was announced as a sort of multi-sim retro 50's light urban throwback....well, I really wanted to see a multi-sim retro 50's light urban throwback. Imagine what that COULD have looked like. Instead, Bay City is just a multi-sim region of Nothing In Particular. The only homogenous area in the entire place is the waterfront, and all those buildings were put up by the moles before nary a private landowner so much as set foot on the shore. Bay City Before The Auctions is the closest the place ever got to being "in theme".

There is no covenant in Nautilus, same as Bay City. Also, there is certainly a LOT of land owned by land traders or other non-end users. Looking at the map there is a HUGE amount of yellow out there.

When it comes to staying in theme I think a few things helped. (I have 3 parcels in Nautilus City, so I have been watching it develop).

Below is just my opinion.
I think offering all those houses as free prefabs helped a LOT. They gave a more direct interpretation of the theme than a collection of textures. In many areas the lots were sold with prefabs on them, so people buying there had an idea that was the way it was supposed (or could) look. Also, when you buy a lot and aren't sure what you are going to do you can plunk down a free prefab in theme while you decide. Many people ended up just modding those because they got used to the look.

In addition, Bay City is an urban area, so even if the builds aren't historically accurate people think tall buildings.

I also wonder if the regular parcel shapes of Nautilus vs the irregular shapes in Bay City have any thing to do with the ultimate feel. In Bay City you never knew what shape/size lot you were going to get until you won an auction. Many lots really require a very custom build to look their best, which is a challenge to even an average level builder.


All that said, I like Bay City, though I haven't been there in a month or so. I started sticking to ground level when I'm there, riding a bicycle or walking. I found it much easier to get a feel for the city and appreciate the great themed builds that way. Anything out of place or too tall just added to the skyline. I put a map beacon on a store I want to visit and then wind my way through the streets (and once through someone's yard..oops) to get there. That really helped me appreciate the neighborhood feel of the place.

There is a tall one down the way, across the canal an down a way -- but the one that was behind me is history. Trust me, I danced a jig when i saw it.



It has it's issues too, but less than Bay City. I tink for many reasons. Nimue hit one of the big ones: the provided all those prefabs and all that content. The Bay City package, which is very small in comparison, can be used to make some great stuff -- but it's limited. The Nautilus freebies cover a whole lot of stuff, and are very handy for keeping to theme.

In both cases, though more in Bay City, LL relied on a "build it and they will come" philosophy. They set theme, expecting that people who were into the theme would be the buyers. The land flipping was not anticipated, I tink, and not a lot of resources were put out to help preserve that theme.



Yer welcome!



I can't disagree with any of that. I would love to see a Bay City that deos accurately reflect its stated theme, as seen in the below:

"Governor Linden said in a pre-recorded statement, “We hope that the Residents of this new city will produce interesting and attractive structures, in styles appropriate to the period 1930 to 1960 when most of our buildings were erected. In any case, the Residents of Bay City will form a unique and bustling community.”"

and

"The style is the American urban experience, between 1940 and 1965, perhaps best typified by Chicago circa 1950 and marked by a distinct deco influence."

As you can guess, I've gone over those blog entries a few times lately.

one of the biggest issues I've found so far are the number of Bay City landowners who do not know what the above would look like. I'm actually developing a presentation on the style for Bay City landholders.

Some have done very good, in theme builds, BTW -- and yes, some of those are skyscrapers. Barnesworth Anubis' was one of the first skyscrapers in the city, and is a perfect example of the style (helps he was one of the moles I tink). He has others in the city that felt well, as do Cory Edo, Cubey Terra, ahkenatan Grommet, and others. If I say so myself, my own store very much fits the theme, even if it isn't exactly "deco" by a long stretch.

Yet for every "Second Arts Building," there is another couple plots that -- well, aren't the best reflection of theme.

I have to admit, I would be in that camp. I may know it when I see it, but, as much as I like Bay City, that concern kept me from even entering into the bidding there. I didn't know what I would be capable of building that would suit the theme well enough.

I've been beyond impressed with several of the resident owned builds that have gone in there, Mari's included.


Oh, and regarding Nautilus...



yes.

Thankoo.

I've been spending the last couple hours going through vintage newsreels and other images, pulling some of the best examples for a full presentation on Bay City style. Gonna be a busy kid!

By the same token, Nautilus did little for me, and I would not know where to begin with that style.