Revisiting Bay City

With all the talk of Nautilus, an with my own involvement in th' Bay City Alliance, I wanted to ask about The City by the Bay a bit. I know there's some work goin on by residents to try an "revitalize" (I might say "vitalize" the Bay CIty area. There have been some successes, at least when it comes to bringing those of us in Bay City together.

My question is this: knowing Bay City's history an stuff, what do you think this area should strive to be? What would you like to see there?

Mari
(Who waits for the inevitable "glass parking lot" style comments)

The Nautilus auctions spurred my interest in owning a bit of mainland. And double prims can't be sneezed at.

So I went to look at Bay City as well. It's intended theme appeals a bit more to me than Nautilus.

But...the for sale prices are too danged high!

That's what I'd like to see there. Some plots that are priced around what Nautilus is going for now.

I'm still thinking of dropping 30-something on a Nautilus plot just to have a nice square 1024 double prim. Regardless of theme. I could leave the ground theme-textured, and live in the sky.

The biggest thing Bay City needs is some way to evict the land flippers that are still squatting on their overpriced parcels and praying someone will pay their extortion rates to get rid of them. I certainly wouldn't pay their asking prices, though. Buying them out may get rid of them, but it just rewards them for their greed.

The people who have actually been USING their Bay City parcels have done some really nice things, and should be encouraged by visiting them and patronizing their businesses.

Question: Have the Lindens fixed the broken water trolleys and bridges yet? Last time I visited Bay City, there were water trolleys burried in the land, bridges that didn't work, and other signs of failed LL maintenance.

I think what Bay City needs is more of a community spirit and tighter control of content from LL Labs. i.e. only allowing content in suiting with the theme.

Oh ya, you an me both. So many flippers bid the auctions to insane heights, then sold to other flippers who jacked the price up higher. There's practically whole sims of Bay City that still, for sale, for outrageous prices.



'zactly. When a 1024m is priced as much as a whole sim, then forget it



Not gonna find any disagreement here.



Yes. Things actually are largely working. Only thing that seems broken is the maze in Bay City - Imaginario.



Not sure what can be done about tighter control (though, ya, I prefer seeing stuff that fits theme any day!), but I know that community spirit is growing. A group called the Bay City Alliance is doin' its best to try an foster that. It's largely succeeding, too.

Ceera, very good point. I was thinking of the same idea when looking at the Nautilus parcels. There are clearly merchants, etc. wanting to build something within the theme. I also suspect that some of the ideas that work(ed) in Bay City lend themselves to Nautilus. Maybe some of the things we try in Nautilus will work in Bay City. The key question you asked is how can we encourage people that live in or visit either of these two communities to buy from the local businesses who are working to make things happen in their communities. Thoughts?

How did the Bay City Alliance get started Marianne?

Well, personally I have made a point of repeatedly visiting Bay City and Nautilus, even though I have absolutely ZERO interest in owning land there myself. I look at the good builds, and check out the businesses that stay in theme. I bought a hovercraft from one merchant in Bay City. Did I need a Hovercraft? Not particularly. But their shop was well done, and perfectly in theme. And I have had a certain amount of fun after that, using the hovercraft to travel both on the streets and in the canals of Bay City. It's actually quite well suited to the area.

I visited an Asian theme sim once, and stumbled across a fantastic build of one of the first sail and steam warships in Japan. Incredible work. I paid the Builder a several thousand L$ tip, even though he wasbn't asking for any donations, just to thank him for creating something so nice, and so fitting for the theme of his area.

So that is one thing we all can do. Be tourists, and where you can, reward those merchants and landowners who have built well within the theme.

Terrific examples. Thanks for posting these Ceera.

I'm so glad you started this thread Mari.

I'm really impressed with what has developed in Bay City. The Lindens may have built some infastructure, pointed the theme in a certain direction, but just like everywhere else on the grid, if there is going to be a community it is the residents that create that. It makes me smile to see how the residents of Bay City are making that happen.

I participated in the ghost hunt this Halloween and I think things like that are a great way to draw people into the Bay City area. As Ceera said, people need not choose to own in a particular area to enjoy it. I think actively reminding people that Bay City is a great place to visit is a great approach. If there is an active community that loves being there, that excitement travels outward.

As for the land prices, it is a problem. Land dealers aren't just counting on the initial land rush to make their profits. They are banking on residents willing to pay the initial entry price being invested enough in the area that they will build it into something interesting, a place people want to be. Doing that adds value to their parcels too. Hopefully, as the tier payments continue to trickle out, and parcels don't sell at ridiculous prices, prices will eventually start moving downward and buyers who want to participate in the area will be able to move in.

I'm not 100% sure of the who, but I know BlueGin Yifu started the group, and did some of the initial heavy lifting. There's a few folks who have become active in the group, working to promote Bay City, to encourage use (including by the store owners themselves, tryin to get us to "be home" on weekends) and comin' up with events and activities that befit the city as a whole. It actually has it's own message board that I've been spamming a lot.



Thankoo.

The only thing I'd be a bit worried about with the Bay City Alliance is that it could be being used as an example for much more detailed management of content in the future.

As in, "it's ok if we bring in a closed group to build this area, because that's only what residents would have done anyway".

This is how I feel about places like Nova Albion, too. I like that area, and have taken to some participating there. The Brownstone has some great photo contests, for one. One can enjoy that place, or some of the larger estates like Caledon, or some of the private-but-community-controlled places like the Luskwood without owning a chunk of it.



One may hope. Of course, they also stand to lose the sizable initial investment they made. Also, as those who are doing good things in Bay City keep adding value to th' place, others will likely pay those insane prices to be a part of it. I dun tink that's a totally good thing. I would much rather see people who want to be there actually able to be there.



I agree, Yumi. An really, things develop as they develop. I'm not exactly the happiest person in Bay City, having the twin uglies behind me. I can see providing some guidance to him and other builders on the theme (there are some great resources, an I'll gladly lend a hand if asked. I'm sure other Bay Citizens would too) – but it should not be the "business" of that group to dictate what is an isn't allowed on another's land.

I like the Bay City and Nautilus environments as they have a cohesive feel to them.
They have a good RL-type believable realism, but in a dreamlike way.

One place I'm not so sure about, though, is Iworld - whenever I go back there it's empty.

I think there is room for this kind of development now SL is so huge. There are some very good looking virtual worlds on the horizon that don’t offer content creation but do offer professionally developed content and complete towns and cities with potentially vastly superior graphics. This is going to attract some of SL's casual user base, mainly those SL's users that are purely consumers.

I am thinking a series of regions to make up a small city, all buildings and infastructure is pre built and non modifyable. Users can add content like furniture and paintings and other items to compliment their pre-built house and merchants can sell content from the pre-built stores or purchase/hire pre-built venues to run events for the community. But overall the residents wouldn’t have the ability to really mess it up and it would need to be moderated on a daily basis. I guess some estates already offer a similar service but this would need to LL controlled and only feature top of the range content and be on a much larger scale that we have seen before. I think that the existing content creators should be employed to build these places rather than outsourcing.

I would be happy to see LL devote 2 % of it's landmass to a project like this. I think it will help them compete with the worlds that are coming.

The thing is - whenever I've mentioned that on other threads, the general response has been that even very low-level content creation is still a key feature to keep SL attractive. And I can understand that - because even if SL does have a region filled with professional content, it won't quite be competing, because a) its graphics engine is out of date, and b) it'll still be using the old, slow, lag-inducing protocols that are necessary to allow content creation, even in the regions built for people with no interest in it.

I mean, my personal preferred solution would be to amend the creation tools so that the worst, ugliest content can't be produced (the prims won't drop in the "ugly" location) but that's just me. (And before you say that's impossible, it has never been proven so.)

The fear is that people who want to learn and experiment will be sidelined because the effect on consumers will be _too_ great.

I'd *definitely* not want that. "One man's trash" an all that.

An really, there's only a handful of places in Bay City nowadays that I'd call "unattractive," not counting the for sale sign plots. The full bright "slave exchange," the Twin Uglies, an perhaps the tall modern office tour next to Hot Balls. By an large, I can live with 'em. I'll be dancin a jig th' day the Uglies are gone, though.

I think you are right regarding the below par graphics engine and old protocols. However I think it will have an advantage over other worlds in that the people that pay to live in these sorts of cities can venture of their nice little haven and explore the rest of SL, pick up clothes and home accessories, pop into a sandbox and have a go at creating and at the end of the day go back home to the nice clean moderated city. Really just thinking of ways to use SL's existing resources to retain some of these consumers that will leave when something 'nicer looking' comes along. I think LL has the ability to offer them the best of words, nice controlled living environments but also offering access to the larger more untamed world that is the SL grid. Maybe the lack of graphics could be made up for in the diversity that SL offers.

I agree Yumi, the last thing any of us want is SL to turn into a Sims online or other pre-built experience.

Nautilus and BayCity still offer empty plots, leaving the creativity up to the owners. So I think We are safe for now. But I do understand and see your angle.

In no way am I the voice for Bay City Alliance, but I know from being a member, that there are no evil plans. =)

We, as a group, are simply trying to support each others activities and help plan some fun things for the city. The main goal seems to be increasing the traffic in the city. Members have already organized a parade(omg thanks Mari, that was really fun!!) a Halloween treasure/ghost hunt( ty Kari!). Harris has donated 2 plots and on one Carl from NCI has set up a newbie info center (thanks Carl!!). There are lots of exciting things in the planning stages also, which I will let the individuals involved surprise you with them! =)

Alisha

Now if only the yellow spots were affordable. /me sighs

Putting your personal preferences aside do you not think it would be in LL's best interest to maybe develop 2 or 3 % of the grid into a 'pre built experience'? as a way of offering a new alternative to residents?

What Alisha said. I *love* it when someone builds in theme. You should see some of those places Barnesworth is doing 'round the middle of Bay City, or the places for Terra an Primouth. Likewise, I love Morris Vig's Second Arts Gallery in Bay City - Tanelorn (an not jes cuz I'm gonna have some of my stuff there).

An on the Bay City Alliance's forum, I put up some stuff about theme, including some design resources. My goal is to help people follow that theme, with a totally selfish goal of seeing Bay City live up to its fullest potential. It could really be someting, an I would love to see it.

(Do a google image search on "Art Deco" Chicago an see some of the possibilities!)

But if someone wants to build a spaceport on their plot, or put up giant screens, or, oh keep two unfinished, poorly textured skyscrapers on their plot well – it's there to do what they wish to it. I may not like some of the buildings in my FL neighborhood too, but such is life, ya know?

An besides, I'm more excited by what we *can* do than worrying about trying to control things we can't.



You an me both. I would rather see some really cool buildings in the lower ends of Tanelorn an Old Town, instead of enpty plots. Surely some of these would be willing to sell at a believable price... someday?

Well, perhaps it could be a switchable option.

What I'd like to avoid is where people find that their local community (in SL) drums them out of content creation because they don't have the talent to create things that are attractive and in-theme from scratch.

Having tools which snapped or limited prim placement so that the ugliest and furthest-out-of-theme things couldn't be built would be one way of resolving that. Of course, the better builders could turn them off.

For better or worse, I suspect the rather high price of entry into Bay City right now kinda keeps that in check. :-/

hmmm Yes, when you put it that way. Especially if they pay me to built them =)) So Yes to it being good for LL.

But(and with a capital B)

..this is also a key market (value added parcels) for estate owners. So No...unless there is a fair way to compete with LL's new apartments.


edit : BTW i tore down my BC parcel(post Halloween seemed a good time) and I am starting to build a clock tower. Still very much in the planning stage, but anyone interested please drop by and make suggestions. =) I am over in Moosehead surrounded by all Braun's glorious art pieces.