Banned Customer

This presents an interesting problem to someone building with an alt. My alt and I both have full permissions on our objects. If one of us builds something and the other does some of the textures, then indeed the object has textures the creator avatar did not pay for. However the profits from said build will be shared by the two avatars, its a collaboration. Alts are a special case on this, you cannot fully separate the two if you are working together on something, which I often do.

Except that this would also tell the person who pressed charges, so to speak, that those two are the same person.

Will people just realise that a certain amount of crime will occur in the virtual world as it does in the real world, and should be punished as it happens, instead of punishing everyone as if they are guilty from the word go?

Also content creators can't begin seeing everyone as a thief - if playing a game makes someone that paranoid they need to take a break. IMNSHO.

I have done it myself with my own alt. And I agree its a problem. But honestly how is the texture creator to know? My only solution as a builder personally is not to buy building materials and instead make all my own. That is not reasonable for alot of people. But its the only solution I ever found personally. In the end I got sick and tired of sorting the various messes out and shut down the texture business...in fact shut down all the businesses. If I ever open a business again it will be for the pure fun of making something folks might want. If it makes a profit great if not also great. I stopped believing in SL as a solid business platform years ago. There is NO solution to content theft. Take what steps you can to protect what you can and just do your work foor the fun of it. Otherwise you will indeed worry yourself nuts.

let's say I would build with my Alt:

I would not be 'allowed' to transfer the textures from my main, so my alt gives my main edit permissions and I bring my main in to texture the build:

1 Who is the creator: my Alt
2 does he have the textures that.s on that build in his inventory: no
3 does he have the textures on his creation: yes
4 how can you tell I transfered them from one to the other: you can't

Another one:

1 I buy a modifiable build
2 I retexture it.
3 again: can you tell who textured it? Owner or creator? Or maybe even my alt with edit perms?

Checking a build to see if textures were used according to such license, gives you no answer at all.

I follow the guidelines given to me. But in this world, they have to take my word for it, since they cannot proof otherwise.

Imo, it's the person behind the avatar who is not only doing the work, but is also the indended recipient of the tips. I can't imagine any tipper being miffed by learning that the av on the pole immediately gave the money to an alt or main.

i would do what the notecard said..if it's not free to distribute then it's not ok to give to your alts..
just because the perms make it so easy to do..it doesn't mean it's so..
they pretty much are useless if you can't copy and trans in builds..

if they don't say free to distribute then they probably don't want them going to your alts..
it should be in any note card that comes with them..if the transaction was with the person behind the avatar then your name would be on their transaction history not your avatars..

And so we're back at who it is who buys the item. I don't think that giving something to yourself (another version of you) constitutes distributing it.

I would have no qualms about sharing building tools between Argent David and Argent Stonecutter and Argent Silversten, if the permissions allow it. The fact that they're even separate "accounts" is a quirk of Linden Lab's "Snow Crash" concept that everyone would only have one character in-world.

Argents David and Stonecutter and Silversten are the same person, and the building is done when it comes right down to it by the guy behind the keyboard... not by the cartoon proxy. Until this thread it never even occurred to me that someone might even want to treat a building alt as a separate legal entity.

Well, only LL can tell if it's an alt AR them and let the G-Team determine whether the IP address of one's final appearance matches up with that of the other's recent appearance.

Whom or what one shares with other avatars is not a shopkeeper's concern.

The transaction is never with anybody BUT the person behind the avatar. Avatars are incapable of entering into a purchase agreement with anybody, only real people are. Therefore everything sold in SL is sold to real people, avatars don't and can't buy a bloody thing.

Just another thing to consider regarding sharing items with alts, the avatar didn't buy it anyway.

ok then the purchase was made using the ceka cianci account by the person behind the keyboard..

it's with that account..the name of the avatar is the name of the account..
your alt is a different account..

if they were the same then you could pass no trans stuff to each of them..
the avatar account is what you use to purchase things..

if the note card says not to do it then they don't want you doing it..if they say it is ok then it's ok..
if it say's assume what the note card says then assume away..

if people are unsure then IM the creator to be 100% sure what the creator means instead of finding all the gray areas..

Two problems with this approach:
1) If my husband and I happen to log onto SL from the same computer, we have been incorrectly identified as the same person at the keyboard.
2) If it is my alt and LL ultimately does nothing, the person filing the AR now knows the alt is me and I might not wish them to know that.

it's not about who is who ..it's about accounts..as much as a lot would like them to be the same account in a situation like this they are not..there is a good reason we can't pass no trans content to our alts..

my personal checking account and my different business accounts are all different accounts totally..same thing here in world..

this is why i said read the note card that they put with the textures for the real permissions the creator is hoping people will abide by..
it's not for us to decide their intent of their permissions..
they are kind of in a screwed position because if they don't make them copy trans they are useless..
i don't feel they should be even more screwed because we can do with their stuff what we can't with no trans..

try passing some no trans hair to your alt that you feel your alt should have..
same difference..

For building tools? I don't see it as a gray area AT ALL. I see the person who thinks it makes sense for me to buy all the textures twice as someone pulling a fast one, like the guy from the RIAA who wants to sell me the White Album twice because I have a CD player in my car as well as my den.

then give me the RL information that lets me know you gave it to you.
you can make as many copies as you wnt for your account..so it's not the same really..

All you'll know is my build shows up with the prims created by Argent Stonecutter and your textures on it. Whether I did the texturing using Argent Koskinen to avoid being bothered by IM while I'm working or not, you'll never see the difference, and you don't need to care about the difference.

so basically people are saying it is ok to pass something they paid one time for to any accounts.. the creator just takes everyone's word for it that it's their alts..
so it is ok for scripts and anything..ignore all note cards and do what we want with it as long as the permissions in the content says one thing even though the creator may say they want it respected another way..

i think i'll just IM and bother them or if they are too busy i may just spend the 10L for it again..

i know if they could make them no trans or no copy most of them would but they can't..

what a raw deal..*opens the tums*

No.

I can understand why people would prefer to spread some textures among their alts, however. While my case was that I couldn't repurchase the textures, there are some reasons why I might give alts some textures.

I might have bought duplicates. Yeah. I've actually done that before, because SL was having a bad day, and rather than ask for my money back, I gave the spare to my alt. By your logic, I should just eat the costs of the error or ask for money back.

I bought a huge pack and some of them would be better for my shop building alt, while some are great for my main. I should just keep them all? Or should I see to it that the one that can use some gets it and I can remove them from my main's inventory?

Or I purchased them long ago on my main when she was the only one I had and well, my alt could put them to better use.

For some reason, I bought them on my main by accident. No, haven't had this happen to me, but I've been braindead enough to buy other things on my main that I meant to buy for my alt. Would it be wrong to give it to the alt and then delete them from the main?

Yeah, if I give them to the alt, unless I made them, they get deleted from my main. I always looked at it as something akin to a computer program's license, where if it says one computer, you can activate it on one computer, but if you change it, you need to deactivated on the first computer and then activate on the other.

Is this the wrong way to look at it?

I don't think that bank accounts are a good analogy for this.

I have a main (Phil Deakins) and an alt (Wicked Leigh) and they are the same account with LL. The rest of my alts are not, but those two are. When I got the second one, it was as a subsiduary(?) of the first, and I paid for it as such. To my way of thinking, they are the same LL account, even though many things about them are treated seperately.

my banking accounts are different accounts that's all that analogy was for ..to show they are not the same thing..same bank just not the same accounts..all different numbers..
all the same persons accounts..


here is all i am saying..
Texture trade is pretty much screwed if they make their product no copy no trans..
So they end up putting the permissions they want respected in the note card because they cannot use the systems..

you cannot ignore the systems permissions set on things so why ignore the permissions from the creator themselves?

if they were no trans you wouldn't be giving them to your alt..if they were no copy you could but you wouldn't have them anymore..

So why not read the notecard and see if they say it is ok?they can't use the systems so they put what they want you to respect in their notecards..

People selling skins sure don't think it is ok or people selling clothes..those textures can use all the perm options..

i'm not saying do it or not do it..i'm saying at least respect the permissions they put in the card since they cannot take advantage of the other permission options..
if they say you can then do it..if they say don't then don't..

i'm not gonna take advantage of their handicap..if others feel it's ok then it's on them..
i just know i don't feel right about it..i'll stay with my tummy on this one..

I don't disagree with anything you said about permssions and the creators' wishes, Ceka. But, if they don't want their textures to be passed to alts they need to do more than put that info in a notecard. They need to sign it clearly where people can read it before buying. If I bought textures and could only discover that particular restriction in a notecard that I didn't get until I'd bought and paid, I would certainly ignore it completely. It's too late to tell me after I've paid.

most do right by the textures for sale..or they have something as soon as you land or a place to click to see a card by each set..a touch in the pie to get the info on them in chat or something..

It's not taking advantage of anything.

As long as it's made clear before the purchase, it's fine. Most sellers display the perms in the signs. If it isn't as clear as the perms are, then I'd ignore it if I found out about it after I'd bought, even if there was a notecard giver that I could have clicked to get the information - unless it was clearly signed to click it before buying.

As far as I am concerned, it is me who buys things - not my avatar. If a seller wants me to think differently, then s/he must make it extremely clear before I buy the thing.