Temp Rezzers circumventing prim limits

You all must be using some really out-dated auto-rezzer scripts.

I don't see any of these performance hits with newer items.

Sure. You can put serious hurt on a sim using a rezzer that rezzes a SINGLE prim object, full of scripts. That's why I said <50 AND unscripted. Just prims, no contents.



Yeah, I have, too, but they aren't all that common. Even still, lots of updates don't contribute noticeably to sim lag the same way a rezzer can.



Yeah, that's basically the point I was trying to make. Most "bling" is a single particle system which is set one time, and the script either has nothing but state_entry(), or a listen/touch event to turn it on and off, if it is even that sophisticated. Pulsating effects, scrolling titlers, random color/texture-changing particles can require a "spammy" script, but updates aren't particularly hard on the sim, compared to someone rezzing in wearing a full-prim avatar with appearance-changing scripts in every prim, compiled to mono. <.<

There's nothing really "out of date" about llRezObject. It works the same way now as it did 4 years ago, as far as the script is concerned.

Old, new, ones I wrote, ones others wrote that I have used, it doesn't matter. If you cross a certain line with them, they lag the sim the same.

Maybe you aren't crossing that line with the ones you've used/seen, I dunno. All I know is what I have seen/experimented with.

Thanks so much guys for all the extremely useful and relevant information and advice.

Now, this is a mainland sim so if I were to buy another parcel in this sim would this help at all or will temp rezzing always be problematic?

I appreciate that if my tenant simply had enough space not to have to use these devices that would alleviate all problems but I'm wondering how this pool of extra prims affects the sim as a whole.

It's not (in-general) the cost of having more prims on the sim that's the real problem - it's the cost of getting them there. It's the cost of rezzing that's the painful bit.

Temp-rezzing is pretty much always problematic, though the scale of the problem is directly related to what is being rezzed and how often, and is unrelated to other land considerations.

I realize now that I'm not entirely sure what the tenant is doing. As was already mentioned, the usual way this works is that there are posters of structures for sale, a prospective customer sees one s/he's interested in, clicks the poster, and the structure rezzes for a while. This causes sim fps to dip for a few frames, sure, but generally no worse than somebody TPing into the sim or changing outfits.

If the rezzer is trying to keep a structure always present by re-rezzing temp prims every 50 seconds or so, that will hurt performance every time it does it. Now if, god forbid, he's re-rezzing multiple temp prim structures to keep them all present all the time, that could be a pretty big hit on sim performance. I think it's a reasonable claim that this would be abuse of sim resources... and in that case, the tenant really should be renting a much larger parcel with enough permanent prims for all the structures.

One thing I forgot to mention earlier: the effect of dynamic rezzing is also a function of the number of agents present to witness it. (No, I'm not having quantum mechanics flashbacks. ) Those new prims have to get pushed out to everybody in the vicinity--the more destinations, the longer that update queue will get, and the more everyone in the sim will see rubber-banding and other symptoms of delayed updates. The point is, what lag one sees standing alone next to a temp-rezzer is *not* the same lag experienced by a club full of residents. (That's also why one should never change hair or shoes in a crowd--it takes longer not because the crowd is slowing down the sim, but rather because it's really doing way more work per shoe, telling everybody in the crowd all about the new footwear.)

Most things I've seen that are described as holographic projectors or similar don't use the temp-on-rez property. I'm guessing that your projector doesn't either. While it's true that in some sense they're used to rez something temporarily, I think it's more confusing than helpful to call them temp-rezzers.

Unlike temp-rezzers (the way I mean the term), the holographic projectors don't raise the ethical debate over bypassing parcel prim limits. They don't allow a person to exceed their explicit prim limits, while temp-rezzers do.

They both raise questions about lag, as you correctly mention, but the questions are different. With a temp rezzer (again, the way I use the term), the script in the rezzer is running indefinitely, although it's probably rezzing a relatively small number of prims at a time. On the other hand, holographic projectors do, as you say, rez hundreds of prims at once. However, once they're done, they're done for the time being. In that regard, they're not really different from an individual rezzing those same objects directly from inventory. I'm not sure if they require scripts in the rezzed objects to facilitate derezzing, but if they did, that sort of load is likely to be minimal until invoked.


To the extent that this is the same as an avatar manually rezzing that much stuff, it's not really fair to say that "temp rezzers cause sim lag". What's really happening is that rezzing lots of prims at once causes sim lag, whether done manually or through an automatic system.

/me recommends going to the Cathedral region and seeing it..

They use it to show potential customers, or just curious people, what the various dragon avatars look like.

Just to keep things clear:

A rezz vendor is not always the same as a temprezzer. Mine for instance, does not rezz temp prims. The building rezzed does ad up on my used prims.

When we had a private island I was absolutely anal about preventing lag and even worse on script times.

We had a prefab house lot. I used a vendor (I modified a free one) that had a button on it so a prospective customer could click it and rez a full size demo of the house. THey then had 15 minutes to walk through it before I sent the die command.

watching the script times etc. THat vendor was considerably lower (even including the rezzing of the house) than MOST commercial vendors at the time by about a factor of 10.

It also lagged us way less than having a copy of every house out as a permanent showroom for folks to walk through. THat many textures is never a good thing

I think alot of the good vs bad debate comes down to the individual uses and scripts

Which means it's rezzing the house about 15 times less often than a temp-rezzer would.

The avatar prims that are rezzed by the holo most certainly DO have the temp-on-rez flag set. It is done to avoid interfering with the prim count, as well as making sure that the prims go away after a short time in case scripts or the sim is lagging. It is designed that way intentionally.



I wasn't even talking about the ethical issues; just the effect on sim performance and what kinds of rezzing cause it, in my experience.

It doesn't really matter if it is ToR or permanent ones with llDie() scripts in the root; the effect on sim performance is the same.



Our holographic rezzer is engaged every time someone wants to see a different product; there are over 50 products which can be displayed. The rezzer locks out for a minute or two to prevent people from machine-gunning it, and to give each person time to look at the product (as well as to de-rez before the next one).

I agree, there really isn't any difference in how things are rezzed, or indeed, if they are rezzed as separate objects, or attachments/full-prim body parts on an arriving avatar. Point is, they /can/ and /do/ cause lag. However, as you say, there are extenuating circumstances. TPing avatars are not as frequent, and they also should expect a higher priority.

The load is when rezzed, based on the issues pointed out in this thread and others, especially with scripts, and most especially with mono-compiled scripts. It is not so much the script load itself that is necessarily the problem, but the marshaling of script resources during the rez process. Once rezzed, the lag goes away, most often.



I never made that statement. I said "temp rezzers /can/ and often /do/ cause sim lag". That is fair to say, precisely when they are rezzing lots of prims at once. It doesn't matter why; the fact is, it happens. Not always, but often enough to justify making the statement so that people realize that there are definite issues with the devices, and should take care to make sure they are not "overdoing it" when using them. Someone who uses a temp-rezzer to present a 1000-prim, heavily-scripted object on a frequent basis probably should rethink their strategy a bit before their neighbors get tired of the regular sim stuttering and AR them for causing lag with it. This is no different than dealing with other forms of lag and spam and is about nothing more than irresponsible use of a tool.

I'm not against temp-rezzers, but they are easy to misuse, and people need to understand the tool so as to minimize their misuse.

As for the ethical issue surrounding circumventing prim limits, that's up to the individual land owner, and the neighbors with whom he/she shares the sim. Personally, I think it is a rotten practice, and will happily AR someone for it *IF* it causes problems in the same sim where I reside, which is almost a given, considering the nature of the use. Most people who are using them are using them to rez many more prims than they are allowed (into the hundreds of prims), so it *will* be noticeable.

Not quite right, Sindy. In this case, I believe the renter has a parcel on the OP's sim. The *SIM* will never have more prims than its maximum, but the *PARCEL* can rez prims right up to the point that the sim's resources are maxed out. (This also holds true for a subdivided parcel in a larger (but not sim-sized) parcel owned by a single entity. I had to keep a close eye on my tenants at Lebettu to make sure they didn't go over their allotted prims.)

Essentially, the temp rezzer person is stealing prims from the rest of the sim. If the OP is OK with that (I would be, for this use, and as long as I had the prims to spare), fine. If not, they should speak to the tenant and either a) rent them more prims for a higher fee, or b) require the removal of the temp rezzer.

And only on demand by the customer. No customers? after 15 minutes the house poofs and nothing rerezzes until a customer clicks the button to do it.

I think you misread my post.

I dont think so my point was it rezzes a house alot less on average than the 15 times less you mentioned.

But it really doesnt matter my original point was that it all depends on the scripts and the uses they are put to.

Yes some scripts are less of a problem than others and yes some uses are less of a problem.

This issue can only be evaluated on a case by case basis. I mentioned what we did BECAUSE its about as low impact as a rezzer gets.

the last year or so its hard to find a sim that doesn't have someone using a rezzer (on the mainland). Many of those rezzers you can watch sim performance and script times spike if you keep an eye on the stats.

What I used is very similar to the builders buddy we all know. Much simpler code. Locations hard coded into the scripts which greatly cut down on the script times since the thing was not designed to be moved around like the BB. Unfortunately it made setup a class A Bit** and the vendor non portable.

I think in many ways SL is in an extreme phase again. People making extreme use of resources vs people going to extreme lengths to be vigilantes. The average Joe gets caught in the crossfire every time. In the case of rezzers I tend to advocate looking at the individual situation before passing judgment.

I still think you misunderstand my point. I wrote "less often", not "more often".

I pretty much agree with everything you wrote. I'm just surprised that someone is actually using temp-on-rez for this purpose. I think of it as being more for small quantities of furniture. I surprised that a temp-rezzer for a 700 prim build would even have satisfactory performance to use as a sales tool.

Well, the entire region is the store; there is nothing else other than the vendors and a few odds and ends in it, script-wise, and we don't often have more than 5-10 people in the entire region at a time, so it is serviceable. However, we know its issues well, and do turn it off during events, or other times when it contributes significantly to the existing lag.

If the OP has divided up the sim's parcels among different ownership groups, it should be a little more constrained than that. AFAIK, the formula Andrew posted to is still in force, so an individual landowner's regular prim limit affects the number of temp prims they can rez, as:
Of course, if the whole sim has the same landowner, then one could temp-rez a lot of prims. [Briefly posted an erroneous calculation that didn't reflect the 1000-prim cap].

Nope I got it I was adding to it

no worries mon ami

I confess to not having recently done Andrew's math to see how many temp objects a given *parcel* owner can have but I still think that the big thing *sim* owners are/should be concerned about is the effect of rezzing all those prims. Unless the region already has close to 15k (or X for openspace or Y for homestead) prims in it, the who "using more than you're allowed" is really secondary. IMO, anyway..

If the entire region is the store, and the largest items rezzed is about 700 prims, why is it necessary to get around prim limits?

Or let me rephrase it: Would it be worth restructuring it so that the 700 prims were available, and the rezzer relied on die-scripts instead of temp-on-rez? I realize there are trade-offs, but my intuition is that the die-scripts would be better, so the main question is whether you could scavenge the 700 prims from static parts of the build.

I'll let the scaley answer most of this but prim limits aside, I think there is _zero_ difference between an object that has temp set and one that calls llDie after a minute.

Cathedral, the region the IoW store is in (or was in, last time I was there) is a pretty serious build. I doubt very much they they could show 1/2 the avatars they sell without tearing down many walls..