Could a world government ever work in SL ?

After being in SL for over 2 years now and having read many of Philip Rosedale's comments that he wants governance to ultimately be done by we residents, I just have to ask the question in the subject title of my post. Is world governance even possible for SL ?

It strikes me that we have practically every stripe of human in SL and that getting agreement on basic principles is even difficult. Do you think that Philip's vision is even possible ? To be honest, I don't think so. On a sim basis, yes. Multiple sims, possible. Grid-wide, no way.

I agree. I shudder at the thought of World Government in RL, and the same goes for SL. While a general framework could be implemented as a guide, we are just too diverse, culturally, socially, economically, to expect a one size fits all style of governance. I can see Sims or Groups of sims forming their own governments, thats not a far fetched idea.

I think anarchy would work - if only everyone had the right attitude

God - any god - forbid! As in RL, all the very worst people would want to be in government, telling us what to do and charging us for it.

I hope LL don't relinquish the TOS and CS for 'our' standards or we'll end up with clashes of covenants and the likes at the sim boundaries (as if crossing them isn't bad enough now!)

It could end up like RL .. and *that* I didn't come here for!!

Philip also believes he is a good CEO, has quality software, and great customer service.

How would they have any power? The worst an SL government could do is try to grief people who don't conform, which would just get them banned. We have those kinds of organisations already; they call themselves police or security =)

Beyond that there's really not much of a way to enforce any "laws" or "regulations" they came up with. Unless they already held the loyalty of a majority of SL's population (so that things like boycotting businesses, or marking someone as a social outcast were possible) then there aren't even social ways to enforce things.

Even economically, the amount of work required for LL to try and regulate business in SL in the same way the Federal Reserve in the US, and the Bank of England in the UK do things would be pretty large. LL are evolving their own economic systems to meet the needs of SL, which is pretty interesting.

I like the freedom of SL's business model, anyone can have a go at setting up an SL business; you don't need any capital as you can build things in a sandbox in your free-time, or script within your inventory from the comfort of a camping chair. You can sell things on slexchange.com or similar sites for free just by getting a friend to put up your one-prim vendor object for a little while.
And then when you do own land, almost anything on your land goes. Estate owners can place additional restrictions if they wish, which is fine. This does however make free travel over SL a pain due to the over-zealous ban-line system for preventing access.

In effect LL is already a world government, it just doesn't do, or need to do, many of the functions that RL governments take on. There is a tax system (tier, premium fees, upload charges), public works (opening new sims, maintaining the infrastructure that makes it all function (as inefficiently as most nationalised industries ), a judicial system ( ARs),even a Health Service of sorts through the various support mechanisms. Other functions of the State - defence, foreign relations - are simply not relevant, as they would not be in an RL world government. We even have a constitution of sorts - the TOS and Community Standards.

What there isn't, is any form of representative government, but that's true for the majority of RL nations. Not quite sure that there needs to be agreement on basic principles - in SL LL have such absolute power they can impose almost anything they like, and our only remedy is to leave.

What I imagine is meant by "governance" however is really just the judicial side of things - what behaviour is acceptable and what is not. There are only very vague "laws" about this at present, but it would not be hard to come up with a much more detailed set of rules, to include things like the various forms of griefing, land use/zoning, waving your bits around in PG areas, etc, etc. LL could do this now, but choose not to, presumably at least in part because of the resources it would take to police. They could hand over the power to make and enforce such rules to residents, whether on a grid-wide basis or on individual sims or groups of sims. To a certain extent they already have, since private island owners can set rules of behaviour and simply ban people who break them. Presumably it would be possible to give certain residents some of the Linden's powers, and enable them to impose fines, suspensions, bans, trips to the cornfield, etc.

The difficulty is whether people would accept such a government on a gridwide scale. If the "government" had sufficient powers to ban they could exclude everyone who didn't accept them, but that would quickly leave SL very empty. A government would probably only be practicable if it could come up with a set of rules that most people accepted were right - similar to the almost universal RL acceptance that it is wrong to kill or steal - even most people who commit such crimes accept that they are wrong. Frankly I don't think such widespread acceptance is possible in SL, or only on very general principles, partly because many people simply wouldn't think in terms of a "game" having such rules, and for most people I imagine it is a game. The furore over gambling, where opinion seemed to me to be pretty evenly divided, with the majority not caring either way, shows how hard it would be to reach some sort of consensus on many issues.

In any event, assuming we are talking about some form of democracy here, who is the electorate? Is it every one of the 9,000,000 or how ever many it is now, many of whom may have visited once and never again? Only "active" residents, however you might define that? Is it only premium members? Payment info on file? Do we each get one vote per alt? Is it one vote per actual user? Don't think it would be hard to make arguments in favour of all those possibilities.

I suspect the chance to set up a resident government has been missed. It might have worked when SL was much smaller, my impression (I wasn't around then) is that there was a more cohesive community before unverified accounts came in, and a governmental system set up then might well continue to have legitimacy and acceptance in the much bigger place SL has become.

Now, I suspect we are a too diverse community for anything of the sort to work, and we will be left with LL running everything. Of course their hands-off approach, whilst a pain if your neighbour puts up an adfarm, is exactly what has allowed the diverse community to develop the way it has.

I will:

- Lobby for a tax on prim babies.
- Pose for photos holding said prim babies
- Fight for improved working conditions for campers
- Bring in a 'tog' system to grade furs
- Fight for 'Tal' to be included in the dictionary
- Free diaper/nappy + pacifier/dummy for all new residents

Vote Hiro Queso for el presidente. You know it makes sense.

The closest one could come to a "government" in SL would be the rules for behavior in a group of private sims owned by the same owner or group. There, the sim owner could enforce their "laws and government edicts" by evicting from their regions any people who declined to "obey the laws", and the sim owner could reclaim any land owned by "criminals". They could have no impact, however, on what those individuals did in other sims, nor could they prevent a banned 'criminal' from returning with a shiny new unverified alt.

They would also have to be very clear in spelling out their rules and regulations, and if they were unfair in excercisin their power, they would rapidly get a reputation as "an evil land baron" who shouldn't be trusted.

But across all of SL? No way. Too many diverse and contradictory opinions on what is or is not acceptable behavior, and absolutely NO way for any ordinary resident to enforce any "laws" or "punishments". It would also be impossible to establish a fair and honest representative government without verifiable ID of the individuals who were qualified to "vote". Want to rig an election? Make a million alts running as bots, and order them all to vote as you choose.

SL is too balkanized for a central government, and will continue to be so as we grow.

Embracing balkanization thru decentralization of control instead of trying to create some sort of utopian unification is the way forward, IMHO.

Whew - too many big words in one paragraph

I think the topic is intriguing. I like things the way they are, but governments do come from somewhere...they seem to arise anytime you have a group of people bigger than an extended family.

The only thing I've got to add to the current discussion, though, is that LL is not, IMO, a de facto government. LL is more like God.

Government is always sticking its nose into your business and telling you what to do when you don't want it to.

God, on the other hand, usually does NOT interfere in your affairs, even when you want him to, except under extraordinary circumstances.

Dictatorship

(see related thread for possible options)

Seemingly only for Professional Athletes, Stupid Media Award Winners, and celebriites and politicians in rehab.

lol Mal.

While I must say, the idea of it all is intriguing, and if it did end up working, could be one of those breakthrough moments for the virtual worlds. However, I think it's entirely impossible.

The difference among SL's residents is so vast, that it would be impossible to meet the needs of each individual resident, or a group of residents for that matter. The task of managing disputes would be monumental, and just as in RL, residents from all over the world have different ideals, different customs that would make coming to an agreement on anything very difficult.

Also, the government, in whatever form or structure it took on, would not have the final say so on the in world affairs in which it was to govern. At the end of the day, even if every single SL resident wanted something, or agreed to something, if it didn't work for LL, then it wouldn't work for the people of SL. Linden Labs would still be the final say-so in world, and in one moment, with one decision, could undermine everything that an established in world government had worked for.

No.
next......

I agree too. Well said Steve. And even in sims, things change too often for any stable governing body to survive. Any given area is run exactly to the level of how evolved the folks are who are there at the moment .how cooperative, friendly, considerate, etc.

And I really enjoy no government. LL is more like the capricious Greek Gods..throw them some sacrifices once a month (tier) and they go on their lofty way. Ok by me.

can i be the anarch?

Does Philip actually speak of wanting a world government??

I thought LL was talking more about things like ARs going to estate (and hopefully mainland!) owners someday. I know they've sorta beta'ed this part but haven't heard anything on it in a long while..

He has never used the phrase "world government" but he basically wants LL totally out of the dispute resolution process and we residents to develop mechanisms (hence my term world government) to resolve problems and regulate ourselves.

That's fine with me, as long as LL gives us the tools.

SL World Government?

Never happen.

Although a "business consortium" of like-minded inviduals who derive social and economic benefits by cooperatiing towards common goals might work out, because each would work within a framework of individual enlightened self interest.

Where have I heard that before?

Instituting a grid-wide "government" would be a really good way to drastically shrink the population of SL.

A political "class" composed of the greedy, the power-hungry, and the agenda-driven will inevitably arise, a political hierarchy will form, and the political hierarchs (to coin a useful word) will arrange things to suit themselves - and those who disagree will be driven out, one way or another. Quite soon SL will look like the landscape in Ozymandias (the Shelley poem; look it up).

You mean you aren't governing your sims? *acts surprised*