Please advise~

I bought a home on a beautiful Island 6 months ago, not mainland. A truly beautiful place, I paid a pretty penny for!
Just six homes or so, on the entire Island...

So last week I was told by the previous owners that they had sold the Island, ummm today I am the last house standing on the Island, its now just me and a HUGE freeway running across the Island!
LOL- NOT!

* Now of course if this was RL, I would be in intensive care by now having a RL heart attack

I know, I know, its just SL real estate but somehow I feel very violated- a freeway?
Humm, can they raise my tier, to get me out of there way? I have tried to talk to them, not sooo responsive!

I know when you buy in SL its like throwing away your RL money, but still a freeway?
Any advise, would be so appreciated!

Bad news for you, Sher. The new owner doesn't have to raise your tier to make you leave. They can tell you to just get out. Ownership on an estate is not ownership in any way. You are only there as long as the current owner allows. It doesn't matter what the covenant states, it is not a legal document.

You can work with your current owner and hopefully they'll do something about the freeway, but I'd recommend you learn from your experience and just move. There are many reputable estate owners in SL, all you need to do is ask around. There is a land answers group that has been started in world. Just do a search for "Land Answers" in Group. The SL Land Answers Unlimited group will be the first listing. Join the group...it's open and costs nothing to join. Start a group chat session to get your questions answered live by a helpful resident!

*cut and paste taken from previous post from Raymond Figtree. Thanks Ray!

You have NO rights on an island. They don't need to rasie your tier to get you out. If they want to, they can just kick you out 5 minutes after you "buy" the land, and there is nothing you can do to get your money back. My advice would be to start looking for somewhere new. And I would never "buy" on an island, a pure rental deal gives just as much, or as little, security.

So in essence you never REALLY own anything, its all just a scam-

Who governs the Island Owners, do they truly own, and do they pay a tier?

I guess I will stay until they ask me to leave- and then I do believe I will be done as an owner!

Thank you, for your reply's!

Yes, the island owners truly own as much as that can be said in SL. They pay tier and the only people who can chuck them off their land is LL.

There are nice islands with good owners out there though. Because of reasons stated by others I choose to rent, though the island owner 'sold' me the land for L$1 so I have full ownership rights (can eject and ban for example). That, to me, is the ideal compromise, since I only ever 'risk' a couple of week's rent in one go.

Owning in SL is really only owning in the sense that a "governing body"/"authority" (in this case Linden Lab) will recognize your claim on a specific bit of virtual land.

In that sense island owners and mainland owners do "own" their land, although what they own doesn't really represent anything in the real world. If LL closes tomorrow, everyone ends up with absolutely nothing.

When you "buy" land on a private sim, all you're really doing is entering into an understanding with the sim owner that he/she will let you use that parcel, but at no point do they ever give up control over their sim. Linden Lab considers that understanding to be a resident-to-resident agreement which they don't get involved in, no matter how ugly things get.

Sim owners do have to abide by the TOS, but as far as land deals are concerned they can be as honest or dishonest as they want. They do pay tier to LL ($195/month or $295/month depending, plus possible VAT) and paid a one-time fee of $1250 or $1675 to "own" their sim.

They may also be planning to sell it right away for more then they paid. They may just be speculators.

If your covenent says you have the right to resell your land....don't sell it back to the new owners for some low number, just to get them out of your hair. I've done that before when angry and regretted it later.

You might even want to put it up for sale at a high price right now---see if they buy it. And if you are going to leave, make sure you pick up all your loose stuff separate from your house---or that can be a pain when it all gets smished together into a brick, when it is parcel returned. That can be a real annoyance to sort through.

Remember there is lots of land in SL for sale and prices fluctuate and can differ greatly from place to place. Also there are alot of so called low-prim parcels for sale---that may be cheap, but you are really being cheated on number of prims. With mainland there are no estate owners, hanging over your head, but there are whole other issues to deal with there too.

I have some island land with Sofia Westwick, and I could not recommend her highly enough to anyone. She's scrupulously fair and although she is very relaxed in her dealings she has a finely tuned sense of the aesthetic.

Truth is of course that as has been said here, the actual owner of the Estate still owns everything. Mainland has it's disadvantages but it is YOURS.

Honestly, if you do sell you land, Sher, try buying on mainland. I know that there are horror stories galore about adfarms, ban lines, etc. However, I have owned land on mainland for over 6 months, and haven't had any problems whatsoever. Maybe I've just gotten lucky and my neighbors haven't done anything too horrible to their land (neither have I to mine), but I really like at least having the illusion that it's "my" space, as opposed to feeling like I just rent as i would on a private estate or island. Just look around and see what else is out there.

So can an owner of an island just take your home, even if you have paid your tiers?

They can kick you out. If you own the objects of your home, they'll be returned probably, but they can reclaim the plot any time they want.

I just opened a new sim and have land for rent come and look at it and IM me in world i give a fair deal and am not planning to go any place
ron

I don't think many sim owners do plan on going anywhere.. but it happens.. oh well

good luck with your sim, Ron ^^

I've never rented or owned on a private sim - The thought that someone could kick me off the parcel I'm renting, or "own" never sat well with me.

I currently own some water property just off a snow sim. My 1024 lot is a perfect size, and once I had my sky box rezzed and in place, the whole worry about ad farms and banlines became non-existent. It's great to own something that I don't have to worry about landlords uppping my rent, kicking me out...and NO covenants. Many private sims are gorgeous, and there are reputable landlords out there, but you *never* own the land your house occupies...if you're ok with that, then cool. However, as I sit 300 meters up in my snowy house in the clouds...I have to wonder why rent when you can own.

Just my two cents.

This has been said by MANY MANY island owners. One person I know had 15 or 16 islands, and sold all but one. I don't know what happened to the renters but I think most of them got evicted by the new owners.

I feel much more secure owning on the mainland, than when I rented. No one except Linden Lab can kick me out, and that's extremely unlikely.

"Ownership" of virtual land is a misnomer in this context.

You either pay LL rent (in land use fees each month), or you pay a landlord rent in "buy/rent" deals, or simply "rent-only" deals. No one owns anything.

My very, very fair landlord is having serious difficulty making her business model work now that LL just slapped down a 20% tax bill over and above what she had factored in. I could well lose my land thanks to this kind of half-baked Lindened behaviour.

But, hey, when I croak it, I can't take the RL bricks and mortar with me either.

Yes, they can take your land. No they can not take your objects (physically impossible in SL) and No, they can not prevent you from retrieving your objects (Well, they can, by banning you, but this would be a violation of the ToS/CS and you can file a Support Ticket to gain your items back).

As for the Op:

Ownership on a private island sim does not exist unless you are the one buying it from LL.

All other instances are RENTING, no matter how the landlord wishes to call it. I have rented in the past, and had very good dealings with the landlord I had. However, I always stress to those concidering renting in SL to not pay further ahead for rent than you can afford to lose.

Even on the Mainland, a landlord has the legal right to kick you off without warning. Most will not as that is just bad for buisness, but, like in RL, idiots do exist in SL.

I would suggest balancing how much you like your current local with how much you are paying, and how much headache you are having to endure. SL should be fun, not an exercise in beating your head off the keyboard.

If it's security you want, then yes, buy land on the Mainland and pay LL tier. While there are other factors on the Mainland (ad-farms, neighbors, etc, etc), it's actually easy to deal with the majority of these. Plus you get the security of knowing that you will have the land as long as LL is in buisness and you pay them thier monthly tier.

~Jessy

You can own land by buying and paying tier to LL. The ownership comes in the fact that there is a RL moeny transaction for goods and services rendered, so a person would have legal recourse against LL if those goods and services were not rendered.

Against another Resident, paying only in L$ (which has no legal value in teh courts), and without a RL legal and certified document of agreement (ie a rental agreement in RL), you have no legal recourse.



Ah, VAT revisited. Before new Residents get in a tizzy again, VAT was not LL's idea. The way it impacted SL was poorly planned and poorly announced, but VAT is part of certain governments in which the Residents live in RL.

Nothing to do there but pay the tax, as I imagine other goverment tax agencies are the same as the IRS in the US and nobody messes with the IRS lol ^.~ Born free, taxed to death.

~Jessy

Sorry, Jes, gotta disagree.

You own nothing, even on mainland - just another form of rent. You etither pay the ultimate Landord each month (who has the power to take it away anytime they go bust), or it is sub-let via another agent. It is "virtual" land and hence does not even exist. It is impossible for you to own it Perhaps when full open-source happens... Perhaps not...

I only revistied VAT in the context of my personal circumstances which are kind of annoying to me right now, given that I had found a great landlord. Tangential, but relevant in my mind at least.

Deu.

Technically correct. In fact, LL can "take away" your mainland even if they DON'T "go bust". Read the terms of service...LL doesn't guarantee anything.

But it's still useful to draw the distinction between the different types of land, and the financial relationships they entail. In general, we have:

1. Buying land on the mainland (from LL via auction, or from a third party). Pay monthly tier to LL. Land may be subdivided and re-sold.

2. Buying an entire private estate (an island sim) from LL and paying tier to LL. Land may be subdivided, but not resold; the estate owner is always responsible for the monthly fee on the entire sim.

3. Buying a piece of estate land from a private estate owner (or from the current "owner" and paying a monthly fee to the estate owner. (May or may not be called "tier". Land may generally be re-sold, but not subdivided. Check the covenant.

4. Renting mainland from a third party owner. No up-front "purchase" fee. Rent may be weekly or monthly.

5. Renting private estate land from an estate owner. No up-front "purchase" fee. Rent is usually monthly.

6. Subletting private estate land. You pay rent to a fourth party who pays a portion of the rent to the estate owner. Rent is usually weekly.

NOTE: #3 and #5 are essentially the same thing. Some estate land has an up-front "purchase" fee. Other parcels can be had for "nothing down".

#1 and #2 are the "purest" form of land deal in SL, and are generally considered "ownership". All the others involve dealing with third or fourth parties, and are lumped together generally as "renting".

We really ought to put Alyx to work at coming up with words for all these virtual land situations. Trying to stretch traditional real estate terminology to cover the phenomenon of virtual land is most unsatisfactory.

All the confusion about ownership is unnecessary. In real life, you don't own land either! You still have to pay the government taxes, and if you don't, you lose it, no matter how long the mortgage has been paid off. That may be a news flash to some of you but it is just the same.

When the only person you pay is the sovereign entity (LL in SL), you own the land. When you pay someone else, you don't own it. The sovereign can take the land away but usually will not unless there is a violation of some rule. That is no different than real life. Land, virtual or not, is not something you own through and through. It is all based on a grant from the sovereign.

I tire of the caveats around land ownership when LL is the "landlord" - it's ownership, as much as you can own anything in SL.

Bottom line, if you pay another resident money for your land, you're renting. Period.

An interesting analogy, but wow does that make the prices high.

My RL property Taxes would be less than the land use fees of a private Island!!!

True, Colette, it is disproportionate for some people. For the people that happily stay on 512m2 of land, it's a bargain.

I'm not a fan of the mainland because of the ugliness factor, but there are some nice areas if you look. If you definitely want to live on an estate then I would go with renting. Even the most honest, caring sim owner could get hit by a bus tomorrow.

I am a little biased since I have focused mainly on mainland development, so I generally don't think it's so bad. If you stay away from the Linden Roads, generally, you may find some really nice spaces.