Skin advice needed

Why? I thought they get baked onto the avatar in the same resolution they're in. So a big texture still takes more time to load than small ones.

Really? You mean baked avatar textures themselves can have different resolutions? Gee... I suppose that could be, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't design it that way myself.

*laughs* Neither of us would, but you know the funky workings of the Linden mind, eh?

It really is the only reasonable explanation why some stuff load like a blast and other on the same avatar takes minutes to load. Different sizes would also mean that rebaking reformats them, which I doubt the viewer does. But since I never looked into the code base (not that it would do me any good, not being a programmer and all) maybe someone else can answer that question better than me.

I don't care for Redgrave skins. The upper shadow definition of the buttocks is way to low, making it appear the buttocks are being clinched together. It'd been better off not even putting that shadow "V" there. And some of the faces don't even match the skin tone. It's hard to find good skin makers that don't overdo shadow effects, especially between buttocks and around the underside of the breasts.

That's interesting. Some people have said that you can't tell the difference in something that's 512x512 vs 1024x1024 until you either get extremely close to the texture or you have to make it larger than 10x10. I accept that although I've never tested it out much.

I'm wondering if the same applies to skins?? Each section I've modded is uploaded as a 512. I could make them 1024's. Would that make the skin more detailed? Or does saving them as a skin downsize them?? Just curious.

You can of course cram more detail onto a bigger canvas. If you then downsize the canvas (which saving them at 512x512 is effectively), depending on the quality of the resizing algorithm of your graphics program, some small details can get lost.

A 1024x1024 texture for clothing and skins is overkill though, IMO. Especially skins take long enough to load as it is. And the bigger the canvas, the larger the file size, the longer the rezzing.

I'm only an amateur at making skins. And though I have done a few from scratch, what I do now with some success is just customizing the Eloh Eliot skins.

For some subtle things, I think it's true that one needs to zoom in really close to notice the additional detail in a 1024 skin vs. a 512 skin.

However, some details just can't be done effectively at 512. Maybe I don't have the best brushes or do the best optimization, but some kind of skin blemishes, if I try to get them on a 512 skin, they just make the skin look blotchy and evil. On a 1024 skin, you can do them, and they do make a subtle, nearly unperceptible difference at normal viewing ranges (though you have to get close to truly appreciate them). But at least they don't blotch the skin up at normal viewing ranges.

Though I would really like to have the blemishes- they add a little bit of maturity to the skin- the question is whether it's worth what I'm guessing is a x4 extra load time. Things load so slowly in SL as it is, and it keeps getting worse. How many more minutes am I willing to be a grey figure to most people while so that I can eventually have that little bit of extra subtle on what is still ultimately a skin that (depite the great work that Eloh did on the base PSDs) is ultimately still more cartoon than photorealistic.

I know this part. Like I said earlier in the thread, my normal routine is to create at 1024x1024 or sometimes 2048x2048. Then resize to 512x512 (normally bicubic sharpen in Photoshop) for upload and use in-world.
The question is more whether it's WORTH uploading skin textures at 1024x1024 even if you pay the price in bake time on wearing the result. I don't change skins much at all so I wouldn't much care if they took longer if it makes them look perceptibly better on me. Just being selfish and honest here. This is for my personal modded versions of a skin (I'm using the original Photoshop files to create them).

Ditto. If you are mucking with Pleiades, she did some highlights in an odd way that I think make the skins look blotchy. There is a sort of bacteria looking texture on two layers -- one set to screen, the other to multiply -- that would seem to make more sense if they were both "finer". That's my next project to try.

I'm always behind the times. I'm still fooling around with the older skins. I know the Pleiades series is supposed to be new and improved, but I quite honestly like the old ones well enough that I see no reason to change. At least on the old ones, I thought that the highlights and shading were great. But I don't necessarily have the best eye for detail either, and I haven't worked with the new skins.

My copy of the (Se) series and others are at 512x512 in the source PSD's. Pleiades is at 1024 in the sources. Are yours different?

It's not just you. For everyone else it will take fours times the load time, too. And skins load 3 different textures. For me, that's not worth it, but you decide.

Mine are 512 x 512. When I experimented with blemishes, I did my belemishes layer at 1024 x 1024 over a basic template, then scaled it down to 512 x 512 to fit into the skin PSD. I do not think that would make a difference from starting with the PSD at 1024, and then scaling down to 512 before downloading.

It probably depends in part how one spends their SL time.

I spend way too much time in my club, which gets crowded during events. A big skin for me slows down all my guests in a crowded place that loads slowly enough already, and I'm not the visual point of attraction anyway (my dancers are). That's why I make the decision, at least for now, to stay with 512 x 512.

If one spends most of their time in uncrowded areas with a just a few friends, then perhaps the tradeoff of the more detailed skin for the longer load time is worthwhile.

Good point.

I agree. All good points. I've been looking at lots of different skin demos lately and have been thinking the same as regards the overly heavy-handed shading.

Gala Phoenix skins used to be among the best body-shading around IMO. Unfortunately the faces, especially the lip shapes, of her newer 'Curio' skins don't appeal to me somehow, although I see a lot around and also on blog pics, so they are obviously popular.

--
Aes

I think Redgrave's Emma2 skin is much more subtle than others in the line. Jennifer & Venus, two others I remember off-hand, were both a bit overdone. OTOH, Christina, which is wayyy too tan and streaky looking in the body, has a very nice, more mature face (mid-30's vs wannabe diva 20-something).

No in that case it wouldn't since you are limited to 512 in the base PSD. Also, since Eloh made the source file at 512, she's designed based on going directly to 512 tga for upload. However, regardless of final size, it's just a lot easier for me to work at 1024. I'm not looking at pixels so much as I am an image that way.

Glad you found some skins that might be contenders, Snickers (love the av name btw).

Glad I was wrong about the ripped skin but there still are some floating around the SL-verse nonetheless.

I'm not crazy about the heavy shading on Redgrave backsides either - but I looove their makeups and faces. They are photorealistic or seem so. (I do notice some of the faces are lighter than the bodies but it really only shows if bald; otherwise the face just 'glows' a bit, plus, it can be writen off to 'makeup' on a female skin.)

I do also like some of the painted skins' faces out there too, though. Bebae's are just gorgeous.

I wear Redgrave Moon. My av needed fine tuning to wear it so I changed the face's shape a bit to fit the skin better. I wanted Moon because it came with the most amount of makeups for the same price as the other Redgrave packs did. That's the only thing I hate and a lot of skin stores do it. Why not lower price a bit when you get half the skins in other packs (although they could also increase price on the fuller packs but that doesn't help the ones who can't use those).

I've tried different skins on different shapes, and what looks great on one will look horrible on another one. So it isn't empirically better, it takes a synergy.

I bought Ava "Peach" from Uzuri. Wow. Most lovely african skin. My goodness. Had to have it. Absolutely stuns on the beach.

Thanks! I have a love/hate relationship with it. I guess it's better than something like MagicSexyLady69. My alt has a very normal name.
I wonder why it is called Redgrave3 and the description says gamer girl or something like that? It's definitely not a gamer girl type of skin. Oh well.I think Moon was too light if I remember it. But yes, shape makes a huge difference. My face looks a bit puffy with Redgrave skins so it has to be tweaked to match. The heavier shadows around the boobs seems to turn my virtual C's into D's. More slider work there as well. If I sell a few more tummy talkers, I may just get the Redgrave anyway. But tinkering with the Pleiades is still fun and very instructive.

There really are very few African/black skins out there. I'm glad you found a good one!

Oh - well this goes back to my initial reaction. Sometimes stolen things are renamed to seem less stolen-y. The other person who replied to you sounded so sure it's gamer girl, I went with that. I don't suppose you could post a pic of the skin?

Moon was too pale on some shapes too but on the one I use now it's okay. It's in my profile if curious.

It was almost funny how odd some skins looked on one shape, "EW!" and then "wow" on another one. Speaks to the art of skins-making I guess. (How do they guess/know where to put each pixel - faces are so easily unmade.)

Here are shots of three skins. Two are labeled Redgrave but I'm not sure if they really are. They were given to me by a friend in-world and they are full perms. If they are stolen I'll nuke them (I'll prolly nuke them regardless). The other one is a modded version of Pleiades that I did from Eloh Eliott's original templates. Curious as to what people think.

I think these "Redgrave" skins look streaky in the body but nice in the face.

Snickers Picassa Album - Skins

EDIT: Added another modded Pleiades skin for comment - Rose Tan & Brown Tan

According to a longgg thread I just finished reading in the Texturing forum, this is not the case. If you create a skin at 1024x1204, the texture downloads for you at 1024x1024 but it bakes at 512x512 and gets reuploaded. Once it's baked, it's good for you and everyone else until you do something that changes the baking (changing sims can do it or changing layers).

However, the scaling in Photoshop from 1024 to 512 (either bicubic or bicubic sharpen) is much better than SL's internal jpeg scaling. So you are better off uploading at 512. Chosen Few says that creating (layered files) at 1024 (or 204 in Photoshop, saving to 1024 (204 TGA then opening the TGA in Photoshop and resizing to 512 TGA seems to generate the best and most consistent results for skins & system clothing.

So yes, I'm sticking to 512 uploads.