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SL Survey

Katheryne Helendale
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Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 2,187
02-17-2009 04:26
From: Tegg Bode
Bucket?
This ain't the middle ages you know, haven't you ever heard of a funnel and hose through the wall? :)
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From: Debra Himmel
Of course, its all just another conspiracy, and I'm a conspiracy nut.

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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
02-17-2009 04:37
From: bilbo99 Emu
Those whose first language is, or should be English, are expected to use it impeccably and with precision.
Those whose first language is English and who present themselves as people who are expected to use English well (eg, professional writers and people in advertising or other areas where words are their stock in trade, or people participating in higher education), and who do not, are seen to be saying... by their lack of care... that what they are writing is worthless.

I have no objection to people doing that, but in most cases I've seen they probably don't realize that's what they're doing, and that's unfortunate.
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Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

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bilbo99 Emu
Garrett's No.1 fan
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,468
02-17-2009 05:07
Good points both Katheryne and Argent.

Doesn't the relatively recent technology of texting in its general form encourage us to 'fire & forget' though? I'm not alone here in the occasional misstype of 'the' to teh'. I might be in conversation in-world or I might be hurredly posting a reaction here but either way I'm (in my opinion) too busy and in too much of a hurry, to proof-read. The time taken to go back, edit, re-read, then post and the opportunity has fizzled. This spreads out beyond mere typos to the use of grammar.

Many of us did not take higher levels of study in grammar. That is not to say we have nothing of value to say (again, my opinion). I see typographical errors nearly every day. In chats, forum posts, newspapers .. even saw one in a Microsoft manual. We're not perfect, something that makes life even more interesting sometimes.

Merely my observation but it seems we too readily imply carelessness to the inaccurate and devalue the content.
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Chet Loring
Registered User
Join date: 29 Aug 2008
Posts: 5
02-17-2009 05:09
From: ct Gearhead
For grad school project, I'm conducting a research project on MMORPG gamers. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=KS65ihurdp2zTHpdsthzOw_3d_3d


OMG what a pathetic grad school you must be in. My wife had to spend a good chunk of a decade writing a 300+ page book on Merleau-Ponte and you get by posting in a forum asking others to do you work for you?

At least I know never to hire anyone with a grad degree from UNT.

How about this, how about you take your survey and then log in and sit down and talk with people in world, ACTUALLY INTERACT with your survey subjects to get information directly, rather than just posting on a website where people with access to multiple IP's can skew the results by posting completely bogus answers over and over. At least if you are in world asking the questions you will only get about 50-60% bs from people's alts rather than the likely 90% (if my multiple responses to your survey are any indication..hehehe).

Maybe you should actually spend time in a community researching it before you "survey" it.
Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
02-17-2009 05:12
From: bilbo99 Emu
even saw one in a Microsoft manual.
"Even"? ROFLMAO! MS has almost single-handedly led the campaign for the split infinitive to universally be accepted as good usage.

Pep (FYI, I am not English, nor do I earn my livelihood writing)
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
02-17-2009 05:27
From: bilbo99 Emu
Doesn't the relatively recent technology of texting in its general form encourage us to 'fire & forget' though?
Uh, roger that, good buddy. 10-4, I copy you loud and clear. Every new communication tool has left its mark on the language, but they wash up like waves on the beach, leaving the curve of the shoreline recognizable when the storm has passed. It's one thing to boldly split infinitives, it's another to completely abandon spelling and typographic conventions.

We're not talking about minor spelling and grammatical errors here, or the use of "because" versus "for", or "affect" versus "effect". We're talking about someone who has mistaken the storm for the shoreline... whether it's the wanton abu'se of the harmless apo'strophe in a shopkeeper's sign

or abandoning capitalization and even punctuation completely

there are obviously situations where it is appropriate

or amusing

even artistic

but nobody believes that don maquis was saying that punctuation was worthless

when he wrote in the voice

so as to speak

of a cockroach

archy

so goodnight america

and all the ships at sea

watch out for the waves

but dont run aground on the shore
_____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
bilbo99 Emu
Garrett's No.1 fan
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,468
02-17-2009 07:04
From: Pserendipity Daniels
"Even"? ROFLMAO! MS has almost single-handedly led the campaign for the split infinitive to universally be accepted as good usage.

Pep (FYI, I am not English, nor do I earn my livelihood writing)
I was not aware of this; in my earlier life as a technician I would try my hardest *not* to RTFM

From: Argent Stonecutter
Uh, roger that, good buddy. 10-4, I copy you loud and clear. Every new communication tool has left its mark on the language, but they wash up like waves on the beach, leaving the curve of the shoreline recognizable when the storm has passed.

LOL Recognisable I agree but unchanged? I assume your 'marks' are the new words and terms each tool brings us but the language changes in other ways. I can remember when use of the word 'gay' might simply raise a smile. It became redefined not by technology but by usage to now induce a range of reactions from raised eyebrows to violence.

Your apostrophe is a good example. Many people technically misuse it. The sentence "It's the scorpions tail which is its most dangerous feature" would have left me blank but for Inspector Morses statement in one of the episodes "one doesn't use an apostrophe in the possessive". This has largely stuck but I still find myself sending lines with its misuse. My point (I think .. I can't remember why I started this exchange) is that with such a large number of people using the apostrophe in the possessive, doesn't it reach a point when it becomes common usage and by definition, correct?

Again, only my view and I'm sure I have a plethora of grammatical faux pas in the above. So be it :D
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
02-17-2009 07:18
From: bilbo99 Emu
The sentence "It's the scorpions tail which is its most dangerous feature" would have left me blank but for Inspector Morses statement in one of the episodes "one doesn't use an apostrophe in the possessive".
One uses an apostrophe to indicate an elision. The possessive apostrophe is not an exception, though the elided pronoun was lost from the language before Chaucer. But one does not use the possessive apostrophe for a pronoun because the pronoun already has a possessive tense...

The sentence would be: "It's the scorpion's tail which is its most dangerous feature". One does not use an apostrophe for a possessive pronoun. The apostrophe in the first "it's" is to indicate the elided "i" in "it is". The lack of apostrophe in the second "its" is because "its" is the possessive tense of "it", as "his" is the possessive tense of "he", and "her" is the possessive tense of "she".

In another thread less than a minute ago I saw people come to a misunderstanding over an apostrophe. One wrote (in part) "were bros" meaning "we are brothers". The other read it as "we were brothers", as if they were no longer friends.

If people used to communicating in the vernacular of text messaging can suffer such miscommunication, I submit that it's worthwhile to take a little care with ones writing. :)
_____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
02-17-2009 08:33
One's highly amused at the turn this thread has taken.

Pep (I might disagree with various of the details but I concur wholeheartedly with the sentiments expressed latterly)
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Patasha Marikh
Here to watch the show
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 294
02-17-2009 08:42
hmmm. He joins on Feb 12, posts his 'survey' plea on Feb 13. And this is researching Second Life?

Chris, do yourself a favor, research what you are familiar with. You don't have a clue about SL. If you want to do a paper on it, then do it next semester, this semester spend getting to know it.

If you want to do grad level work then you need to be able to not simply say "people in SL do xxxx" anyone can see that by reading a few websites. You need to identify the different interests in SL, there are thousands of reasons people get and stay involved. Show the social dynamics at work behind the communications. Why do people want to interact with their avatars online instead of in RL? What comfort level is created by the avatar, and not just 'a' avatar, but the specific avatars people choose. Does a person representing herself as a furry have the same dynamics evolving in her Second Life as a person playing a gorean slave-girl? Is the suburban wife playing at being a LA gangsta receiving the same type of emotional catharsis as a guy pretending to be a woman? These are graduate level questions, not "Are you having as much fun as you thought you would?" That's something a freshman would ask.

Pat
bilbo99 Emu
Garrett's No.1 fan
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,468
02-17-2009 08:51
Thankyou for your explanation Argent. I'm just a wee bit confused over the apostrophe you added to "scorpion's". I can see it clarifies it's not the plural. Was Inspector Morse'(?)s explanation in a context I perhaps missed?
And oh yes! the 'were' point I concur.
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bilbo99 Emu
Garrett's No.1 fan
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,468
02-17-2009 08:58
From: Pserendipity Daniels
One's highly amused at the turn this thread has taken.

Pep (I might disagree with various of the details but I concur wholeheartedly with the sentiments expressed latterly)

Thread ... a rather apt name. Column would be entirely wrong :D
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Novis Dyrssen
Girl Geek
Join date: 6 May 2007
Posts: 1,452
02-17-2009 09:30
Can we just go back to bashing survey guy? *has a headache*
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
02-17-2009 09:32
From: bilbo99 Emu
Thankyou for your explanation Argent. I'm just a wee bit confused over the apostrophe you added to "scorpion's". I can see it clarifies it's not the plural. Was Inspector Morse'(?)s explanation in a context I perhaps missed?
I suspect that you missed the word "pronoun" from the end of the aphorism. Adding that one word and the example and aphorism are correct.
_____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
bilbo99 Emu
Garrett's No.1 fan
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,468
02-17-2009 09:33
From: Novis Dyrssen
Can we just go back to bashing survey guy? *has a headache*
No! I'm enjoying myself!
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
02-17-2009 09:34
From: Novis Dyrssen
Can we just go back to bashing survey guy? *has a headache*
Come now, we can do the "I before E" rule next. It's weird. :D
_____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Ephraim Kappler
Reprobate
Join date: 9 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,946
02-17-2009 09:38
Or what about split infinitives? I can never work out how to properly do those.
bilbo99 Emu
Garrett's No.1 fan
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,468
02-17-2009 09:44
From: Argent Stonecutter
I suspect that you missed the word "pronoun" from the end of the aphorism. Adding that one word and the example and aphorism are correct.
Thankyou again.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
02-17-2009 09:56
From: Ephraim Kappler
Or what about split infinitives? I can never work out how to properly do those.
The passive voice can be found to efficiently promote the split infinitive.
_____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
ct Gearhead
Registered User
Join date: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 21
02-18-2009 06:53
thanks to all those who have taken my survey. i still need a few more, but the data collection portion is almost complete, and i hope to have the final results written up in 3-4 weeks after i have collected enough data. for those who are interested in the results, let me know and i'll be sure to forward them to ya!
LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
02-18-2009 09:33
From: Patasha Marikh
hmmm. He joins on Feb 12, posts his 'survey' plea on Feb 13. And this is researching Second Life?

Chris, do yourself a favor, research what you are familiar with. You don't have a clue about SL. If you want to do a paper on it, then do it next semester, this semester spend getting to know it.

If you want to do grad level work then you need to be able to not simply say "people in SL do xxxx" anyone can see that by reading a few websites. You need to identify the different interests in SL, there are thousands of reasons people get and stay involved. Show the social dynamics at work behind the communications. Why do people want to interact with their avatars online instead of in RL? What comfort level is created by the avatar, and not just 'a' avatar, but the specific avatars people choose. Does a person representing herself as a furry have the same dynamics evolving in her Second Life as a person playing a gorean slave-girl? Is the suburban wife playing at being a LA gangsta receiving the same type of emotional catharsis as a guy pretending to be a woman? These are graduate level questions, not "Are you having as much fun as you thought you would?" That's something a freshman would ask.

Pat
This!!!
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ct Gearhead
Registered User
Join date: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 21
02-18-2009 16:47
From: Patasha Marikh


If you want to do grad level work then you need to be able to not simply say "people in SL do xxxx" anyone can see that by reading a few websites. You need to identify the different interests in SL, there are thousands of reasons people get and stay involved. Show the social dynamics at work behind the communications. Why do people want to interact with their avatars online instead of in RL? What comfort level is created by the avatar, and not just 'a' avatar, but the specific avatars people choose. Does a person representing herself as a furry have the same dynamics evolving in her Second Life as a person playing a gorean slave-girl? Is the suburban wife playing at being a LA gangsta receiving the same type of emotional catharsis as a guy pretending to be a woman? These are graduate level questions, not "Are you having as much fun as you thought you would?" That's something a freshman would ask.

Pat


Pat, you make good points and all of those are interesting things worthy of study, but i think its short sided to make assumptions about surveys and studies, especially if you're in the study population because as a researcher, one of the goals is to not divulge too much information. obviously, researchers need to inform the target population as much as possible.

researchers need to "confuse" the participants about the true nature and scope of the study. we do this because, in general, it has been shown, that if participants knew what exactly the researcher was looking for, their answers and responses would change to suit the questions of the researchers. by keeping it vague, researchers get true responses, but whether my ideas and assumptions are correct or incorrect are a different matter.

thanks for everyone's interest so far. if you haven't dont so already, i hope you would take the survey. i cant divulge too much more info than what is included with the survey in fear of biasing and altering responses.

if anyone would like to know about the actual research questions and the previously published research my research is based on and modeled after, i would be happy to discuss them with you.
Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
02-19-2009 01:50
From: ct Gearhead
Pat, you make good points and all of those are interesting things worthy of study, but i think its short sided to make assumptions about surveys and studies, especially if you're in the study population because as a researcher, one of the goals is to not divulge too much information. obviously, researchers need to inform the target population as much as possible.

researchers need to "confuse" the participants about the true nature and scope of the study. we do this because, in general, it has been shown, that if participants knew what exactly the researcher was looking for, their answers and responses would change to suit the questions of the researchers. by keeping it vague, researchers get true responses, but whether my ideas and assumptions are correct or incorrect are a different matter.

thanks for everyone's interest so far. if you haven't dont so already, i hope you would take the survey. i cant divulge too much more info than what is included with the survey in fear of biasing and altering responses.

if anyone would like to know about the actual research questions and the previously published research my research is based on and modeled after, i would be happy to discuss them with you.
Ah, now I understand!

Pep (You are deliberately trying to look stupid to confuse us)
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