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Account Creation Petition ****PLEASE READ****

Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
04-12-2008 21:05
what i don`t understand is why doesn LLABS allow those free acoount to pay 9.95 a month without the forcing them to upgrade to full membership? This allow has pissed off many users. Why not start ging week pay back as a option to those that signup. Its not much but its better then now.
Bambee Pelous
Bunnie's Baby
Join date: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 65
04-12-2008 22:19
From: Arua Rotaru
you can not compare wow to sl they are completely different types of games and are run completely different

in wow you do not have thousands of people all making and downloading their own unique items ...in wow you do not have all people on 1 world they are broke into servers and then the different continents are broke up onto different servers also
also on wow you have a limit how many people can be in each "world"

also since there are not unique items its all static and such there is less of everything there so it will be less laggy and will be more stable but they also have 4 to 8 hours of downtime every week for maintenance and more often then not that night everything is a mess anyways

its like comparing apples to grapes it dont work


I can certainly demand some sort of Quality of Service before I am locked into paying for something and that was the point.
Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
04-12-2008 22:35
well if enough people paid fromthe started maybe the quility would be better.......hence don`t expect anything if your not paying for it.
Bambee Pelous
Bunnie's Baby
Join date: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 65
04-12-2008 22:40
From: Usagi Musashi
well if enough people paid fromthe started maybe the quility would be better.......hence don`t expect anything if your not paying for it.


That's exactly what I am saying. I don't pay for it and I don't expect anything. But if I am going to be required to pay for it then I expect it to work like it should, most of the time. That's how it works. You can't sell the service and THEN make it work, it has to work first, before you can legitimately charge for it.

I was a paid account holder for awhile until I realized I was tossing money into the trash because it was broken all the time. As it is I convert cash to lindens occasionally to use for my in-world projects and they should be happy to get that.

If Linden Labs can fix the issues and demonstrate decent uptimes and prevent the loss of data on a regular basis then I would have no issues dropping $10 a month to continue to be a resident. this won't stop the grievers, however. And to suggest that this proposed plan of action will stop them is ridiculous.

Life is full of people who give grief. That's just how it is. To expect the Second Life virtual world to be free of those people is flawed thinking. In the 7 months I have been a Second Life resident, I have only been grieved a handful of times (maybe 4 or 5) and I would hardly consider that to be cause for slamming the door shut on alot of people who are contributing to the experience in a good way just because they aren't willing to drop their money on a lackluster service.
Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
04-12-2008 22:51
thats all good and said. But paying for it early could set a trend for others to follow. I myself wouldnt mind paying more for better service. I been a paying users 5 days before my trail period ended. I can say I done my part and then more.
Bambee Pelous
Bunnie's Baby
Join date: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 65
04-12-2008 22:56
Well I will be standing my ground. I was a premium account holder for several months before making the step down to being a basic user. I pay back my money in tier fees and converting US dollars to lindens so I input my dollars into the economy, but I must see a huge improvement before I will be upgrading my account back to premium. If Linden Labs wants to entice me to become a premium member, they will have to demonstrate an improved level of service.
Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
04-12-2008 23:19
if thats how you are its understandable. But for use that continue to support the game by paying for it i can live with myself. its been almost 4 years for me and times it wasnt been easy. I continue to support the paying of this game until otherwise LLABS once again changes the concept. I don`t mind paying to me its my form of stress reduction for my rl. The game help me get through my birth of my baby and up until I returned to work in rl....The friends i made and the experiences i had ( the good ones ) are priceless.....
Bambee Pelous
Bunnie's Baby
Join date: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 65
04-12-2008 23:26
From: Usagi Musashi
if thats how you are its understandable.


Wow I'm not sure how I should take that it sounds rather insulting. Like I am a bad person for suggesting that a company actually provide some level of quality control on a product and service they provide. I sure hope that wasn't the intention.

From: Usagi Musashi
But for use that continue to support the game by paying for it i can live with myself. its been almost 4 years for me and times it wasnt been easy. I continue to support the paying of this game until otherwise LLABS once again changes the concept. I don`t mind paying to me its my form of stress reduction for my rl. The game help me get through my birth of my baby and up until I returned to work in rl....The friends i made and the experiences i had ( the good ones ) are priceless.....


For me it's a hobby which allows me to exercise my creative side and expand my knowledge of the tools I use as I complete my education to become a professional graphic artist. I think it's incredible you have hung on for 4 years and congrats on the birth of your baby. Maye my posts make it sound as if I am against all of you but really all I am suggesting is that a drastic switch in policy while the system is in such a ragged state will only serve to destroy any chance of Second Life 'righting' itself.
Maggie McArdle
FIOS hates puppies
Join date: 8 May 2006
Posts: 2,855
04-12-2008 23:34
From: Matthew Dowd
One thing always puzzles me about such claims:

Yes, I fully realise that to many people $10 *is* a lot of money, I don't question that.

But to logon to SL you need

a) a computer with a pretty decent graphics card, lots of memory and a powerful CPU (i.e. something which would be worth at least the $900 mark).
b) electricty to run that computer (logging onto SL every day could easily add $10 to the monthly electricity bill compared to having the computer switched off instead).
c) a decent broadband network connection (again probably costing >$10 a month in subscription)

So an extra, one-off $10 fee to play SL is a minor increase over the PC, electricty and network costs you would be paying.

And that is my puzzlement - I realise that there are people in this world who could not afford $10 to play SL, and I count myself fortunate that I could afford this. But for those to whom $10 genuinely is a serious barrier*, would they really be able to afford the equipment, electricty, and broadband costs to play SL anyway?

Matthew

* I don't wish to belittle those in such unfortunate circumstances - but any attempt to make SL more accessible to people in such circumstances, like similar attempts to make the internet as a whole more accessible need to go far deeper than free sign ups (e.g. ability to run SL on low cost <$100 PCs etc.)


took the words right off my keyboard...

$10 seems like a lot to some people, due to tight budgets, fixed incomes, bills, but when you think about what you spend casually in a day..its really pennies. and although my budget squeaks, i found its easier for me. to pay yearly. 6 bucks a month is doable. and i only have to worry about it once a year. but to flip the coin, i did start out as a basic free account, although i used a credit card to verify, i remained one for almost a year. while i was a bit of a hot head in some cases i never griefed anyone, and spent money, more than i should have but i did. i have more than a few friends who are free account holders and they don't grief. so why does it come to this every 6 months? banning free accounts wont get rid of griefers.



/me goes to bed as she is tired now and the caffeine is wearing off......
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Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
04-12-2008 23:45
No i suggested no such feeling. I saying how and what i done during the almost 4 years on sl............
Einsman Schlegel
Disenchanted Fool
Join date: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,461
04-15-2008 17:06
*bangs the gavel* did I get your attention? Very good, Keep an eye out for further information.
Amaranthim Talon
Voyager, Seeker, Curious
Join date: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 12,032
04-15-2008 17:27
Absolutely not!
Stupid stupid stupid idea
Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
04-15-2008 17:46
WOW can anyone say it any less then that way? hahahah :o
Darkness Anubis
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,628
04-15-2008 22:12
Usagi back when you and I started we had no option to be free. It was a 14 day trial then pay or leave.

by thier own terms even if we had paid the one time fee for basic we are still paid customers to this day. Even then people had the choice to pay the 10 bucks one time and be basic for free forever. Only thing LL did was remove the 10 bucks and realistically from talking to alot "FREE" basics most of them over time put alot more than 10 bucks into LLs coffers via lindex.
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Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
04-16-2008 00:14
Darkness thats a very good point. But The numbers taht put money inthe game is far less then we are lead to believe. Oh there are those that own osland and use ALTS and put money in the game thur them. But There are some cutures that refuses to put any money in to a VR world. because they have to touch and feel the porduct and Sl is not their kind of value. We should have the option these days for those to pout back the 9.00 per alt. why not? Whats 9.00 to them if they do put over 10.00 or so in money? I think more less its just BS on the part of LLABS and those that say they put money in the game.
bigmoe Whitfield
I>3 Foxes
Join date: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 459
05-11-2008 00:29
(digs up old post)

I am a little sadden by this thread (ok there are many but this one is kicker so far)

I have been here for over a year and have contriubted and have gained the trust of so many people. I will never support such a thing and there are alot of us "freebies" that wouldnt either. Instead of jumping because a grifer pi**ed in your cherrios dont take it out on all of us that cant afford this uber elite status.
Xerxes Kingstop
supercalifragisomecrap
Join date: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 416
05-11-2008 06:06
From: Einsman Schlegel
... I can estimate these users to be at 2000 a day at any given time on Second Life.



... form the Department of Nubers in your Large Intestine.
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Rebecca Proudhon
(TM)
Join date: 3 May 2006
Posts: 1,686
05-11-2008 11:44
From: Einsman Schlegel

My proposal: To get rid of ALL free accounts and change the startup policy back to where it was with the 14 day trial. AFTER the 14 day trial if the account user wishes to become a basic account he/she would pay 10$ for for a one time activation fee.
each account with a LIMIT of 5 accounts MAX.

For those who wish to participate in this petition, simply read this and point others to this link. If you agree make a new Notecard named 'Account Policy Petition' state your name in the notecard and youre agreement with the policy. The reasons why will be optional.

The reasoning for this proposal is clear. I am hoping it will be enough deterrance for Second Life to become enjoyable again while remaining open access with a cheap activation fee.

Signed,
Einsman Schlegel



I think alts need to be linked to a master account, so if one does wrong they can all be banned. Otherwise I agree.

I don't understand why people on the forum hate the idea. Do people have such low confidence that people will pay the monthly fee?

I think it was a major mistake and lack of patience, to go to the free accounts. Cheapening SL cheapened SL. I'd rather it cost more and worked better.
bigmoe Whitfield
I>3 Foxes
Join date: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 459
05-11-2008 13:59
From: Rebecca Proudhon
I think alts need to be linked to a master account, so if one does wrong they can all be banned. Otherwise I agree.

I don't understand why people on the forum hate the idea. Do people have such low confidence that people will pay the monthly fee?

I think it was a major mistake and lack of patience, to go to the free accounts. Cheapening SL cheapened SL. I'd rather it cost more and worked better.



Um no and NO. Limited income means cant afford much of anything. Lucky the place I live provides free internet or I wouldnt be here at all.
Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
05-11-2008 14:12
From: Matthew Dowd
But I still maintain if you switch the computer off after you've used it for work purposes rather than playing SL, recreational web browsing, watching movies etc. you'll cut you monthly electricity bill (particularly with today's escalating fuel bills) by more than $10 - possible even enough to buy two packages of diapers!

Matthew
Actually in where I am in NZ USD 10 is about a third of my eletricity bill (during the summer) and so I would have to not be using the computer for about 10 days in the month to save that money. Also you just helped the other guy make his point - not only does he need to find USD9.99 to play but also the money for the extra electricity - at the moment he is spending his join up fee on his power to play. So his cost to play would in effect jump to USD 20.00 if he had to go premium to play.

In NZ that would be around NZD 50 not an insignificant part of anyones budget for an online game where the majority of things within the game still need moeny to use or play. Yes good computers can still be had for NZD 1000 here. My point is that you cannot surmise that because USD 10 or 20 is a lot for some people that they cannot have afforded a computer at some point.

I am premium myself and I do not support the idea presented in the OP - it will not end griefing - as others have said - if you even look back through the forum archives - griefing existed before free accounts.
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
05-11-2008 14:17
From: Rebecca Proudhon
I'd rather it cost more and worked better.
I don't think stopping free accounts would have any effect on it working better unless by that you mean because there would be less people generally? SL has to begin to scale at some point - if it cannot scale to many more than what it has today then it will not have the mass appeal that LL wants. In effect free accounts are stress testing the system for LL - I can see why they want to keep them.

If you think that somehow banning free accounts would help with the working better in some other way then please explain how.
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Trout Rating: I'm giving you an 8.2 on the Troutchter Earth-Movement Slut Scale. You are an amazing, enchanting woman, and, when the situation calls for it, a slut of the very best sort. Congratulations and shame on you!
Bee Mizser
Registered User
Join date: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 329
05-11-2008 15:12
From: Matthew Dowd
Well, a decent motherboard would be what about $75, dual core CPU about $100, few gigs of RAM about another $100, decent graphics card $100, reasonably fast disk $100, box to put them in and PSU about $75, LCD panel monitor $100, copy of Windows $100.

I'm guessing a little on the US$ prices but in the UK a decent bargain basement PC with monitor would be in the 300-500 UK pound range i.e. $600-$1000. A bespoke system with high end graphics, fast dual core/quad core etc. (i.e. what might be a mainstream gamers machine) 500 uk pounds - 2000 uk pounds ($1000 - $4000)!

So I would peg a machine which would run SL reasonably well (i.e. 20fps+) with most of the windlight shaders enabled and a decent draw distance, at around the $800-$1000 mark (again based on UK prices and converting).

However, my point is that, whilst I can understand someone not being *willing* to pay $10 to play SL, anyone who genuinely could not *afford* to pay $10, is highly unlikely to be able to afford the equipment, electricity and network costs to play SL.

As regards places where they are *unable* to pay (due to not having credit cards, access to paypal etc.), I'm not entirely sure where these places are, and how do other companies do business with such countries? (I would suspect they allow payment via alternatve mechanisms available in such counries rather than making all their products free...)

Matthew



Don't need all that to run SL reasonably well. I had an old Athlon XP PC with an old NVidea 5600 in it. Ran windlight beautifully, and worth no more than £50. Add a copy of Linux (free) and there you go £50 ($100) all in, yes it was old, yes it had a CRT monitor, but it worked. beautifuly.

Also running a computer constantly for a year, would cost the same as running 5 60W lightbulbs for a year, the main spend on energy is and will always be on HEVAC (HEating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning)
Bee Mizser
Registered User
Join date: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 329
05-11-2008 15:16
From: Rebecca Proudhon
I think alts need to be linked to a master account, so if one does wrong they can all be banned. Otherwise I agree.

I don't understand why people on the forum hate the idea. Do people have such low confidence that people will pay the monthly fee?

I think it was a major mistake and lack of patience, to go to the free accounts. Cheapening SL cheapened SL. I'd rather it cost more and worked better.



You love playing devil's advocate don't you!
Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
05-12-2008 02:28
From: Macphisto Angelus
Also it has been said that there are Countries with citizens that are unable to pay LL due to currency issues (LL does not accept them) so this allows the world to be in SL. Again, part of Philip's vision for SL.

Yep it's hard to believe there are countries that have high speed internet, but no credit cards because they still trade chickens for currency :)
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
05-12-2008 02:35
Despite the bot plague I don't think we should ban free accounts.
BUT I do believe we need to verify every one in world somehow to close the floodgates, or SL will become PG / teen grid, because there is nothing keeping kids from creating free accounts.
It's also a bit silly how if you have a premium account you have to cheat by using a bodgey email to create more than 4 alts. But otherwise Lindenlabs has no problem with unverifieds running 5 accounts for every disposable email too.
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