Teen Grid Joining OUR Grid?

.. I might be stupid or blind or something.
But to me its still NOT clear of the teen grid will join our main grid.
So hereby, I ask ANY Linden, to answer this question for me.

And fellow residents..
Pherhaps you know the answer?

Because I am utterly confused..
Underaged people joining our grid.. the thought makes me shudder.
Let the kids play outside for god sake, SecondLife comes later, when they grow up.

The official answer from LL is that there are no current plans to merge the grids.

This doesn't stop Phil from saying he would like to merge the grids in interviews.

Matthew

In corp-speak, an official answer of 'no current plans' means 'it WILL happen very soon.'

I suspect the progress plan is like this:

1. Open adult region
   
   
2. Merge in teen grid
   
   
3. React with shock when the teens start slipping into adult region and the pedos start slipping into the former teen now PG regions.
   
   
4. Ban innocent adults in adult areas that are doing adult things whenever teens happen upon them.
   
   
5. Close all adult areas and converts all of SL into PG to protect the teens from themselves when all other measures to keep them out of adult areas fail.
   

I certainly hope it happens soon. Unless of course you can give me one reason why people who were 17 years and 364 days old yesterday can't talk to any of their teen friends today.

Everything that any Linden has posted on the topic has been, there are no plans to merge the grids. It seems very clear to me. If a Linden replied to your request, Proxima, it would be the same statement. Whether or not they do have plans to merge the grids, they always say that they don't, which is very clear.

Law.

As an adult, I don't want to get in trouble when that person shows up in my nudie bar and gets on a poseball with me...

Nor do I want to be responsible to their parents for what I say, in my adult space, when they invade it.

I doing gives a hoot about a teen's "maturity", and how entitled they might feel, I'm covering my own behind here. The moment you let that person in; a whole massive can of nasty legal worms comes in the door with them...

How could that happen? It seems to me a lot of people don't understand the phrase "merging the grids" is NOT equivalent to "Letting teens loose on the adult grid." Obviously teens would be limited to PG areas. So unless your "nudie bar" or your "adult space" are on PG land (and it should be on "Adult" land, or at least "Mature" then what are you worried about? If you're worried about teens lying about their age and sneaking in, you might want to sit down for this...that happens now.

They can still talk to them. Just not in Second Life.

Too bad about that, but there are very good reasons for a Teen Grid. Second Life has done a pretty good job avoiding real pedophilia scandals, and the Teen Grid is a major reason for that success.

Parents who sign their children up for the Teen Grid do so with the understanding that it's a very controlled environment where the presence of adults is concerned. Merging the grids destroys that trust completely.

After you graduated high school, did you spend all your time going back there to hang out with your friends? Graduating from the Teen Grid is not much different. You can still talk to those friends, it just has to be outside Second Life until they join the main grid.

Because that's just the way it is sometimes. There are many things an 18 year old can do that their not yet 18 friends can't. SL is an 18+ venue, at least for now.

The idea that you are being cut off from your friends is BS. Yes, you can't meet up in SL, but there are plenty of places online for you to stay in touch, until they are old enough for the main grid.

I still think SL would be better served with a properly run Teen Grid, perhaps with a safe area where some sort of intermingling can occur. But the main grid, even a sanitized one should be 18+

If you think it would take more than 0.1 seconds for a teen that is supposed to be on PG land to make it to adult, I've got a bridge to sell you.

The very first thing 90% of those teens will do is search terms like sex, and the next thing they will do is turn out a series of hacks and scripts to jump over there...

Sure, some of them are there right now using fake age verification, but merging the grid would just make it all that much more worse.

Besides, plenty of less adult clubs and bars exist in PG land where I can chat, date, and even cyber-IM someone... and I do not need to legal consequences of 'mommy' seeing what I am typing to 'little jimmy' over his shoulder... Nor do I need that on my conscience... While there is a chance even now that an adult I am chatting to is faking that, the chance goes exponentially up with a merged grid.

And on a merged grid, just entering a PG bar as an adult and chatting up the locals to feel out the place would result in inappropriate contact between me and any umber of teens, even if I didn't say a single direct sexual thing.

Unlike in RL - there are a lot fewer indicators and ways to screen how we behave in front of who, but we'll still be held to same legal standard.

If you were a parent, or old enough that your circle of friends included many parental couples; you'd start realizing that its kind of freaky to have adults in an online 'chat room' with your kids, even if they're talking about innocent subjects like sports or Hannah Montana... heck, in some ways that's -more- freaky than if they're talking adult subjects.


There are some bright lines in law, not many, but some. Age of consent is one of them. It might make no rational sense to you, personally I think it needs to be about 25 given the way some younger adults conduct themselves... but it is there...

With things as they stand, everybody on the main grid has to tick a box saying "I am over 18". That gives us at least some legal protection should the worst happen.

As a parent, I wouldn't let my kids anywhere near a merged grid, but I'd be more worried about unknown adults being in the PG areas with my kids than I would about my kids sneaking into an adult area and seeing a bit of laughable cartoon porn (not that they'd have to - there's plenty of sexual content at many PG welcome areas).

Also, while I like spending time with my kids and their friends, I greatly appreciate child-free environments ... even PG ones, sometimes.

Well, you know, in a lot of ways SL is analogous to life. So much so that it was given the name...Second Life. Saying "you can still talk to your teen grid friends, but it has to be outside of SL" is kind of like saying "you can talk to your high school friends, but it can't be on Earth." In life, sure, there are 18+ venues. Take a bar, for example. (Which is technically 21+ in the US, but for the sake of argument, let's say the drinking age is 18.) If I'm over 18, and I have friends who are under 18, of course they can't come into the bar with me. But the difference is, I can come out of the bar.

No, it's more like saying you can't go back to the High School to visit with them.

If SL is a "life" than you move forward and make new friends.There can be ways to let you stay in touch, maybe allow you to IM those on your friends list for a period after you move on or as I suggested a neutral zone where controlled interaction can occur. But the Main grid should stay 18+ in my opinion.

Let 'em in! We could use the improved design, style, music, and scripting.

In a lot of other ways, SL is NOT analogous to life. You can come out of SL in the same way that you can come out of a bar.

I understand your frustration at what is (and has to be) an arbitrary cut-off point. I have a daughter who is a couple of months away from turning 18 and it is very, very frustrating for her. Would I take her to the pub? Nope! that's adult space and she is legally still a minor. Time passes and she'll have the rest of her life to be an adult.

I know... I was trying to convey that it works both ways.

Sure, if you're kid sneaks over to an adult area, they're going to be more safe... funny as it sounds, if your kid secretly cybers in say 'free sexlandia' - the adults there are not looking to find a kid... so even if improper things happen, its not likely to spill out beyond the screen. Or rather it might, as teens are over-emotional (hormones, anyone below 25-30 or so is not in full self control...) and people will end up 'dating' - but the adult there will quickly escape once they figure out what has happened.

(Note that, as 'free sexlandia' (or insert any such sim name here) currently might stand, if its more likely to be all adults, we can have silly fun, giggle at how funny our AVs look going at it, and not let it spill into RL emotions - assuming adults who are also mature).

On the other hand, in a merged grid, every single PG zone becomes dangerous turf. The adults who go there will be on constant guard: Do people accept that I'm here to get t-shirts, or think I'm here to pick up kids... and the few adults that are out there to pick up kids, will all be hanging out in the Hannah Montana Sim...

... ick ...


Oh, on sexual contact in PG welcome areas, let me recount my Saturday experience.
- I was in a nude bar, pole dancing for tips. When I'm doing that I often scan profiles of nearby people to look at their picks and groups so I can find other fun places. A dancer came through with 'Playboy' as her title, so I got curious, in addition to seeing that that company has an SL presence (unless somebody's doing a little tm-infringment), I found a new nude dance beach and bar as her first pick. So on my 'break', I TP over there. Since its listed at nude-only, I didn't bother to dress first.

Poof, suddenly I'm standing naked in the middle of a pack of people, on help island... and it takes me about a minute to render everyone and notice that this is definitely -NOT- the place described in the pick. Silly me, I didn't think to look at top of screen first, it was only when I noticed an odd presence of so many clothes that I did so... and by that time I'd been there long enough that if someone had been mad, I could have been AR'd...

Translate that experience to a merged grid, and the possibility of problems grows by leaps and bounds. Now that I know people can fake a pick, right down to a fake graphic, and have it point to a different TP location than it appears to in the profile, I'm not TPing anywhere unready for a surprise... but not everyone will be so savvy, at least not until they make a mistake like I did.

I sort of see where you are coming from. You can't exactly leave adult land and go back to the teen grid to hang out with your friends (like you might do in RL).

Still, you can always chat with them on IM. Share all the crazy adult antics you are getting up to and tease them for not being old enough yet. Ummm, just be careful, because... you are an adult now and you can get in legal trouble if you say certain things to them.

I know, our laws are fucked up...

u wnt litrcy 2 plmmt 2?

Pep (It's bad enough now. )

I'm not eager to see a merged grid, but I don't think it's fair for people to act as if it's not a loss for someone who's been active on the Teen Grid to "graduate" to the adult grid and lose all their under 18 friends.

I don't interact with my SL friends anywhere but in SL. I don't IM them, don't send email, etc. It's a very self-contained world for me, and I like it that way. It would be a real blow to me to have to leave the grid, lose all my friends and contacts, and have to start over in some other grid. To be honest, I probably wouldn't bother.

If there were some kind of solid security system, I would support a teen-only area, a PG/mixed area, and an adult only area. (I know, I know there's no way to guarantee people going where they shouldn't, but I think we all agree it's that way now, anyway.)

Linden lab has to realise, that when they merge the grids there is NO way back.
You cannot say after months..

''Oh shit, we should never have done this... lets seperate the grids again''

Thats impossible!
So please I hope Linden lab thinks 100 times before they merge the grids.
EVERY decision they ever made in the past is EXACTLY the WRONG decision.
The complete OPPESITE of what WE (residents, costumers) want.


So please, Blue, I know Blue Linden is responsible for teen grids.
Make sure you have a good verification system before you merge anything.
In my eyes, a merge between both grids would destroy second life.

Well put .. I was about to put that my daughter ( RL that is i dont do pretend families ) just turned 18 none of her friends have so she chooses not to go to bars * 18 is the drinking age here ) so she can be with her friends. I am sure they can talk to their friends outside of SL if that is important .

Two strangers in my favorite club last night were carrying on like that, and making assorted references to their inability to handle being around a bunch of naked AVs...

- Almost made me wonder if they'd secretly merged the grids last night...

The company did have a presence in SL, but it closed. They threw all the normal members out of the VIP group; I don't know whether the former staff members of Playboy got to keep their group memberships. (No such groups show up in search but they might be hidden.) There has certainly also been lots of trademark infringement of the Playboy name, including groups with that word that are not associated with the company.

I have been talking to Lindens about this recently and they keep on saying there are no current plans to merge the grids. Merging the grids would be a disaster for MG residents and there will be alot very unhappy teens. This adult content change going on the moment doesn't help and should not be enforced. As a former TGer that transfered last December I think LL should work more on the Teen Grid and make TSL more popular. There is still time to make a difference LL before it's too late!

Yes it is harmful being separate for the 17-18 crowd. But you'll find that in RL too, it may be an arbitrary number but that 18th birthday makes a very big difference in who you interact with. Very soon after, you will end up having a circle of adult only friends, and the few people you know who fail to make that RL transition will end up getting left behind and somewhat ostracized.

Life moves on, and you're no longer being put in the child category, and also no longer allowed to hide in it. And that changes things.

Plus, as harsh as it is for that small transitioning minority, the division works to better serve the much larger two majorities on the farther ends of the age spectrum. And that's another life lesson that comes with being an adult in a society rather than one's own individual nation-of-one: sometimes the needs of the majority -do in fact- serve to disadvantage minor groups, and there are cases where this is fair (particularly when one is only in that minority temporarily, or by choice or conduct).