Why do people not report underage operating on the grid?

Tell that to Microsoft...

And Adobe...

and...

Phil, it's hard to say at this point because of so much nitpicking and word turning as I try to address each post in kind. It's no small amount frustrating.

But I believe what *I* was referring to was first, your argument about 16 being an adult, and perhaps secondly, the various reasons someone 16 should not be in Second Life, including not being of an age to legally agree to the (TOS) contract. I think in the Teen Grid it is the parents who actually sign the contract or agree?

But it's very confusing to debate with you, because as soon as someone makes a point, you act as if the topic was something else entirely.

You must not look so much at was has been as to what lies ahead. There are significant changes in the legislation in countries like Germany, Australia and New Zealand, in addition to changes in how the EU countries operate with respect to issues like this.

Some of these changes are of such a nature that only one incident can put SecondLife into a national filter that blocks SL out from entire countries. – Countries that accounts for a significant part of the user base and therefore SL economy.

I guess I'm just not seeing where the real problem is. The child avatar community polices itself quite well, doing their damnedest to stay far away from sexual scenarios. Except for Prok and Lias making planets out of molehills, there is just no real documentable evidence that adults are dressing up as children to perform sex acts in SL in any statistically-meaningful numbers. Yet, it is because of sensationalist reports by Prok and overreactions by Lias that "sexual" and "ageplay" continue to coexist in the same sentence.

Cuts both ways, though. Countries that implement Great Firewalls also lose trade. I think most such legislation is nothing more than fodder for electioneering; if any should ever be enacted, the politicians responsible would have to actually live with the results--they may be sleazy, but I doubt they're that stupid.

Odd that just as the US administration is falling all over itself to side with Net Neutrality, national content filters are still being discussed in the reactionary technophobic backwaters of some other countries--even in nations that by constitution cannot forbid public speech about how and where to proxy access. Censorship-by-octet works a lot better in a closed society.

If your talking about the Australian net filter, SL would have to be added to a black list and it's not going to be according to an answer from LL when they where asked, also the net filter won't make through our PM's fantasy world according to Australians.

That's also a path for future of censorship.

I hope I haven't done that. I've tried to stick to anything to do with what I first posted, plus the odd post here and there. But this thread is a bit of jumble and it's not always clear what posts are referring to. I got the impression that your "pertains to the law" post was about LL's 18+ rule; i.e. the 18+ rule pertains to the law. It doesn't, of course - it's merely a rule that LL made up and nothing to do with any law. People who are under 18 are perfectly allowed to log into the main grid without infringing any law. Law doesn't come into that. That was my reply. If I misuderstood your post, my apologies.

Ok Phil.

You're right there are a few (at least) conversations going on within this one thread.

Minors can't be held to a contract and perhaps LL also sought to protect minors from some of what they might be exposed to here.

I did not think that a corporation's contract or TOS is *the same as* state or federal law however.

I do think the law influences it, though.

Well discriminating against all child avatars because there's an underground business of ageplay going on is wrong as is any kind of racial profiling. SLKids as a whole are a respectable subculture in SL, who consist MOSTLY of mature, middle aged people, who have chosen (for any reason they need, just as anyone else here) to pursue a better life than perhaps what has or had been dealt them. The end result is a return to innocence accented with a touch of experience.

People in Second Life have as much a right to pursue activities which are not sexual by nature just as much as those who feed into their erotic fantasies and fetishes. The SLKids have helped others including held charity drives.

A child avatar should not be automatically scrutinized or followed with the expectation that they exist for perverse purposes here, any more than anyone else is. That IS racial profiling. Unfortunately it's happened on occasion where SLKids have been stopped and interrogated by self-proclaimed law enforcement (which by the way is against the TOS and ARable as we know only one law exists on the mainland: LL).

If the ageplay scenario or a proposition presents itself by any avatar (which is not likely to happen out in the open) then of course AR them. Just because kids are conspicuous does not make them automatically criminals. Guilty until proven innocent? That's sad.

Real kids? They don't belong here. SL is trying to protect its butt with disclaimers and we try to protect their butt and our investments by doing our part and ARing. That's our part towards an end to eliminate them and age players and any violators to keep outside scrutiny off SL and keep it from being shut down. Leave the legitimate law enforcement to review the report and do the following around. They have the training and they know the rules that RL demands of the company.

Can we go home now?

Well, yes. They obviously chose 18 because of certain laws in the U.S. I wanted to point out that underage people in the main grid does not break any laws. It seems I didn't need to

This is the only argument for not ARing underaged kids in SL that makes any kind of sense; but it requires intellectual honesty. If you think real kids should be allowed on the adult grid, then don't AR them when you find them; it's not breaking any rules to not AR someone. But be honest and say it's because you think kids should be here. I don't have an issue with people who think so; I just take issue with incredible justifications.

As a kid av, I have more of an incentive to not want real kids here. There's squick, as mentioned, as well as the spectre of impropriety that comes with an adult being in a child avatar and interacting with kids on the internet. It also undermines our argument that we're all adults here; because suddenly we're not all adults - and that makes formerly unreasonable arguments suddenly have purchase. Some talking head or other putting down Second Life because kids might get access to hardcore BDSM simulations? You can't say "who cares, SL is supposed to be 18 and over only" in response if you're purposefully not ARing real kids when you happen to find out about them.

I know a few under 18's on the grid, I use to report them when I found them, they would get banned, and be right back a few days later... They openly admited to me being under 18, and when they got back without knowing I was the one that reported them, openly admitted to scanning a parents or older sister/brother's drivers license and emailing it to Linden Labs to get the account back.

Though I understand your way of thinking, I do disagree. I do not think kids belong on the adult grid. And I do support the 18+ age. Not because I think that SL can do much damage to a teen (not more then the rest on the internet), but because I think the shit would hit the fan if SL opened up their doors for all ages. Though eventually, they will do just that, I believe.
The reason I disagree is because I do not think it is my task to report someone of 18- to LL. As said, I do not think it would harm them, so the only reason I would AR them is because the TOS says they can't be here. I support the 18+ age but I do not see it as my responsibility to enforce it.


Well I think I can pretty well say just that. I see why you have more of an incentive then I have of course. And I do not blame you for filing that AR. But as long as I do not see any harm done, I would not see the need to file the AR myself.
SL IS supposed to be 18+ and it is up to the provider (LL) and the parents of the child in question to make sure that they cannot access the content. And even then... did you check the world wide web lately? Open to all ages, containing everything you can imagine, and more.

Yet Second Life is changing. Adult content is going to be restricted to a continent that needs you to age verify. And I think those restriction only become stricter. Now I can still sell sexbeds or animations on mature land, but for how long? My feeling tells me LL wants to serve SL to all ages in the end, so mature land will eventually be disneyfied.
And when that is done, kids will find ways to enter Zindra. Even then I will not file AR's, simply because I refuse to hold myself responsible for the entire grid population.

Well if it's that easy for underaged people, I suppose then that takes care of the argument that an AR causes such drastic inconvenience to actual adults-who-for-some-reason-claim-to-be-real-life-children on SL.

Well it should be, shouldnt it?

a couple of years ago a cousin of mine made her first SL account. She did it here from my computer so that I could help her through those first few hours of learning to move around and function.

While on Help Island before she ever hit the mainland, out of the blue, some new AV in the same sentence said something to the effect of "Hi I am 14 wanna have sex?"

Yep I showed her how to AR real fast.

One thing I have always wondered though is if this was a LL or Police plant. Lets see how many actually report it.

It is.

It was probably bubblegal_14:

Time for a robe and wizard hat?

You and whose rhino?

this forum has got to be to sl what austnet is to irc

LL did not seek to protect the minors from what they were exposed to here. Or at least not just. LL is seeking to protect themselves from the minors who exposed themselves to the adult stuff here. Or more correctly, the parents of said minors when they find out what their precious has done. Not to mention, removing as much fuel for the political fire as possible.. else there will BE a law.

Oh and nothing they do will keep the kids completely out. I have yet to see a site that can manage that. Actually, it's far easier to create a site that would keep adults out!

Ya, that. I don't much want 'em here, and I don't really think they should be here. As a result, I'm more than willing to report 'em when I come across them.

For the record, BTW -- aside from voice users at the hubs who sound like their 10 -- I've come across this three time in my SL "career." Twice the avatars were overbuilt, adult males, and once was an adult female in the usual over-revealing clothing and large-breasted avatar type you can see in most of the info hubs.

Regardless of avatar type, however, it's a clear violation of TOS/CS to be under 18 and on this grid. What countries or locations have what as their "age of maturity" is irrelevant: LL has said 18, so 18 it is.

Nah, tell it ta the judge

*sigh*, this thread really disturbs me, the amount agism, almost equivilant to nazism.