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Have you ever felt sorry for a camper?

Weston Graves
Werebeagle
Join date: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 2,059
04-04-2009 14:43
I had the crazy idea of finding a newbie lady at a camping site and after ascertaining she was a real human, and probably a real newbie, I offered to pay her several hundred to model in a building I had just made for photographs for the box cover or vendor picture (in the unlikely event I should ever release it). I just wanted the house to look occupied in the photo.

The trouble came when we got to the build and she approached me (I was going to be in the photo too), I crashed. I logged back in to find her still there, and then immediately crashed again when she approached. Then I couldn't log in so I tried with my alt, and he too crashed immediately. Eventually she gave up and went elsewhere - and I hope she found her way back to wherever she wanted to be. I must have confused her horribly if she really was a newbie.

It turned out to be my video card drivers were incompatible with the viewer at the time, but what an embarrassing mess. I haven't tried to hire anyone since.

I think my motives were in the right place. At least she got the half up front I offered, I hope. If you happen to be reading this - my sincere apologies. :o
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Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
04-04-2009 15:04
From: 3Ring Binder
i am a camper. i need the $$ to pay my membership & tier. when i don't have time to PLAY second life i will chat my camper with other campers in the area for a few minutes. i always say hi to the regulars, either in open chat or IM, but usually IM so they surely see it if they are AFK. i have made a lot of friends in SL this way. usually, the same people camp the same spots...

i would love a better job, but i am AFK a lot, especially overnight. i do not camp in areas that allow bots... mostly because you cannot get a spot if the bots have found it. but i really do watch my campers for conversation.

oh, and to the people visiting shopping places that have campers? we hear your conversations in open chat. i tell you, the conversations i could use as blackmail that i've overheard over the past 2 years of camping.... (insert devilish smirk here)

we are not all cold, heartless bots. in fact, i hardly see bots anymore in the paid camping areas. people have really put the kabash on that, as far as i can tell.

i wish i could find a better way to generate lindens and still be AFK, but as of yet i have found none. and for the record, i have spent a lot of $$ on my camping alts and i don't mind doing so. i usually shop at the area i am camping so my alt's attire fits in to the theme.... although, not always anymore. but i gladly will if required. it makes camping more than just camping - it makes it feel like you are a part of a community. (and shoppers love when a camper chats. they always first react to us as if we are robots and are delighted when we actually have something to say, can offer advice on the shopping area, etc. i find a great deal of humor in all that, and enjoy being helpful, and have made quite a few friends that way as well - when i am not AFK) :)



I started out camping now and then....seems like it paid quite a bit more back then, because I remember buying land with the proceeds.

It wasn't actually pity on the camper as a person and what they were doing.....but pity on the amount offered....seemed like a huge insult. I could think of several things I could hire them for, at 100 times that amount, which would be win/win for both....and even a few more down the line, as they might take that income and spend it in a store.

Unfortunately, it must have been the store owner's cousin.
Ralektra Breda
Template Painter
Join date: 7 Apr 2008
Posts: 1,875
04-04-2009 15:41
If I had a conversation with them, and they are new and camping for $$ (like many do at first, including me), and I needed someone to do a job and they seemed like they would be able to do it, I absolutely would. I wouldn't 'create' a job for them however.
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
04-04-2009 16:22
From: Lewis Luminos
I just assume the campers are all bots and I don't feel sorry for them at all.



this...
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
04-04-2009 16:26
From: Weston Graves
model in a building I had just made for photographs for the box cover or vendor picture

some of us camper people will do that sort of thing for free, just because we think you are swell. :)
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Tod69 Talamasca
The Human Tripod ;)
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,107
04-04-2009 16:36
I do and dont.

I know some folks are camping because they dont know where to start or lack the creative ability to try something.

Some I dont, because I know they're just here for the LEWT
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Kelli May
karmakanic
Join date: 7 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,135
04-04-2009 17:31
With UK electricity prices what they are, I estimate it costs around L$30 per hour for me to be in SL, excluding ISP charges (which I'd be paying anyway) and wear on the components (which is hard to quantify). Without running a bunch of alts, I couldn't afford to camp, with payouts typically 4-12L$ per hour.
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Johan Laurasia
Fully Rezzed
Join date: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,394
04-04-2009 21:28
From: Mickey Vandeverre
.....and offered them a better paying job?

If so....is that against the rules somewhere?

If not against the rules.....at worst....would you consider it morally wrong?

Or morally right?


It's neither against the rules nor morally wrong, but, as a businessman, it's a bad bet.

Ask yourself, why do camper's camp?

1. For starters, they either can not or are not willing to spend RL money on Lindens.

2. They have no talent for content creation (or, more likely, they believe they have no talent for content creation).

3. They know they could create content, and are simply lazy, or are here to have fun rather than do any work, which is a choice, and if it's fun over working, that's just fine.

4. They're 'professional' campers who code bots and maintain teleport lists, etc, and are not necessarily looking for an SL 'job'.

So, what I'm saying is it's not exactly the pool of talent that you seem it might be. Personally, I go at it alone in SL, and don't employ anyone, but if I did, I'd probably tend to hire someone looking for a job rather than a camper. I have at times hired people in real life though, and translating my experience in RL to SL, I'd tend to stay away from hiring campers. However, I suppose there is some talent out there, and I'm sure it's not impossible to find a good employee there, albeit, the last place I'd be looking.
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Johan Laurasia
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Join date: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,394
04-04-2009 21:39
From: someone
...and wear on the components (which is hard to quantify).


No it's not, the average pc lasts about 6 years, and the average (in the range you'd be looking for an SL capable computer), about $700 usd. That works out to 32 cents per day, or approximately $84L per day. Good computer care could possibly drag it out to 10 years, dropping cost down to $50L per day, so, averaged out, 50+80/2 = $65L a day.
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Mickey Vandeverre
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Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
04-04-2009 22:05
From: Johan Laurasia
It's neither against the rules nor morally wrong, but, as a businessman, it's a bad bet.

Ask yourself, why do camper's camp?

1. For starters, they either can not or are not willing to spend RL money on Lindens.

2. They have no talent for content creation (or, more likely, they believe they have no talent for content creation).

3. They know they could create content, and are simply lazy, or are here to have fun rather than do any work, which is a choice, and if it's fun over working, that's just fine.

4. They're 'professional' campers who code bots and maintain teleport lists, etc, and are not necessarily looking for an SL 'job'.

So, what I'm saying is it's not exactly the pool of talent that you seem it might be. Personally, I go at it alone in SL, and don't employ anyone, but if I did, I'd probably tend to hire someone looking for a job rather than a camper. I have at times hired people in real life though, and translating my experience in RL to SL, I'd tend to stay away from hiring campers. However, I suppose there is some talent out there, and I'm sure it's not impossible to find a good employee there, albeit, the last place I'd be looking.


Yikes!

I was a camper at one time, and none of that applied. I busted out some money as fast as lindens would let me....even purchased it off Ebay for the first 30 days. Just felt like...if I was cleaning house or working at home office....might as well be adding to the funds. That's lazy? I didn't even have a gadget that would let me stay online constantly - had to check back in every fifteen minutes, not to get logged off.

Such harsh judgments of campers in here.

Let me revert back to the question....pardon me for not being more specific....I think you missed something.....since I have not been scolded yet, and very well expected that.

The camper sent a copy of my job offer to the store owner, for which they were camping for......store owner questioned my "morality".....accused me of "stealing"....threatened to file an abuse report.....and has made repeated threats all day long.....even went so far as to try and purchase the property next door to me, to make my life a living hell.
Fortunately, I happened to be standing there, and snapped it up in time.

That camper is not getting a job now....that ended up being a very expensive offer.

No Good Deed goes Unpunished.
Weston Graves
Werebeagle
Join date: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 2,059
04-04-2009 22:05
From: Johan Laurasia
Good computer care could possibly drag it out to 10 years, dropping cost down to $50L per day . . .QUOTE]

In ten years I hope to have a neural link to the grid and a mnemonemotion wetware interface. That'll cost a bit more.
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Conifer Dada
Hiya m'dooks!
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,716
04-05-2009 03:54
I can't say I've ever felt sorry for a camper! In my very early days I used to earn a few L$ on dancepads in clubs (do dancepads still exist?).

Apart from when I used to hope someone would get off a pad so I could have a turn, I can't say I've ever given any thought to campers.
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Kelli May
karmakanic
Join date: 7 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,135
04-05-2009 05:06
From: Johan Laurasia
No it's not, the average pc lasts about 6 years, and the average (in the range you'd be looking for an SL capable computer), about $700 usd. That works out to 32 cents per day, or approximately $84L per day. Good computer care could possibly drag it out to 10 years, dropping cost down to $50L per day, so, averaged out, 50+80/2 = $65L a day.

That assumes a lot: no component failures along the way (I've needed 2 new hard drives and a network card in a couple of years, more than the average but still not unusually high), no rolling upgrades to keep up with demands of software (new graphics card and an increase of RAM every couple of years seems pretty common too), and most of all, what proportion of the costs are attributed to SL use. My PC isn't exclusively for SL, I'm guessing most aren't.

I never said it was impossible to calculate, just hard. But taking a number from the high end of your range (L$72 divides nicely by 24), one can add L$3 per hour to the costs of a 24/7 camper.
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
04-05-2009 05:11
From: Johan Laurasia
No it's not, the average pc lasts about 6 years, and the average (in the range you'd be looking for an SL capable computer), about $700 usd. That works out to 32 cents per day, or approximately $84L per day. Good computer care could possibly drag it out to 10 years, dropping cost down to $50L per day, so, averaged out, 50+80/2 = $65L a day.


How long a PC lasts and how long a PC is useful are two very different beasts. My PC from six years ago wouldn't run Second Life today as is. I could have upgraded the processor, Motherboard, PSU, changed the case and got new RAM but then I'd be getting into Trigger from Only Fools and Horses territory where he claimed to have had the same broom for 25 years ;)
Harmony Levee
Registered User
Join date: 8 Dec 2008
Posts: 189
04-05-2009 05:33
I do, but thats only because about 2-3 years ago you could camp 10 minutes for $50-75L.......now its what. 2 days for $2-5L?...lol
Monalisa Robbiani
Registered User
Join date: 9 Jul 2007
Posts: 861
04-05-2009 06:18
I used to be a camper. But back then it didn't only pay reasonable amounts, it was also a social activity in places where you could meet actual people. Today it is usually just bots, and the payout is negligable. When I meet a camper that is actually a real newbie I give them money, just as I was given money from time to time when I used to be a camper. For those who use bots and armies of alts I don't fell sorry at all. There should be a limit of allowed accounts per person.
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Tabliopa Underwood
Registered User
Join date: 6 Aug 2007
Posts: 719
04-05-2009 06:30
From: Weston Graves
From: Johan Laurasia
Good computer care could possibly drag it out to 10 years, dropping cost down to $50L per day . . .QUOTE]

In ten years I hope to have a neural link to the grid and a mnemonemotion wetware interface. That'll cost a bit more.


Yes but will you be able to camp with it and make 15L a day = p =)
Cappy Frantisek
Open Source is the Devil!
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 400
04-05-2009 06:56
Felt sorry for a camper?
World Undercroft
Rez Rez Rez
Join date: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 81
04-05-2009 08:09
There has been only one so far. This girl at a clothes place started talking to me in IM the other day, I couldn't believe she was actually just camping........ugh! All that time wasted for 6 or 7 lindens....(she is still there everyday)
sable Valentine
AU United
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,275
04-05-2009 08:26
I used to be a camper in my first year in sl. I loved to camp at the Gold Rush casinos 27L/2mins. AHHHHHH... the glory days. Payouts were great and the social interaction was wonderful. I found it amusing when a dragon would im me saying baby, you avie is hot blow on my dice (I know that can be taken in serveral different ways) at the crap table. LOL!

Some of oldest and dearest friends I met while camping. In addition to Gold Rush, there was Arsheba's the Barbie club and so on. Camping was a blast back then.

Now I don't anymore because sl is so much fun. Those that do camp and are real avies I do feel sorry for them to a certain extent. 1L/1hr is a downright insult.

Also, every now and then I would give a newbie 200L. I recall I was camping and this guy told me your avie is nice but I hate newbie hair . Here's 200L go to Gurlywood and buy some hair. Only you have to promise help someone else. I did and still do just that.
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Mickey Vandeverre
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Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
04-05-2009 09:00
From: sable Valentine
I used to be a camper in my first year in sl. I loved to camp at the Gold Rush casinos 27L/2mins. AHHHHHH... the glory days. Payouts were great and the social interaction was wonderful. I found it amusing when a dragon would im me saying baby, you avie is hot blow on my dice (I know that can be taken in serveral different ways) at the crap table. LOL!

Some of oldest and dearest friends I met while camping. In addition to Gold Rush, there was Arsheba's the Barbie club and so on. Camping was a blast back then.

Now I don't anymore because sl is so much fun. Those that do camp and are real avies I do feel sorry for them to a certain extent. 1L/1hr is a downright insult.

Also, every now and then I would give a newbie 200L. I recall I was camping and this guy told me your avie is nice but I hate newbie hair . Here's 200L go to Gurlywood and buy some hair. Only you have to promise help someone else. I did and still do just that.


Those were the good old days! Camping was just as much a social activity. I remember at the casinos, when the whole row of slot machine players were chatting and carrying on....just like Vegas. Party atmosphere....and lots of friendships made there. That was fun.
Jojogirl Bailey
jojo's Folly owner
Join date: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,094
04-05-2009 09:58
Never really got into camping...figured out pretty quick that i wanted to explore rather than sit still...so i just bought some lindens and went on my way. I do offer folks who come to my sims the same advice...just buy some lindens and get moving so you can have some fun. I often give them some money, lm's to some places to get cool free stuff, free things i have in my inventory etc.

I do see how someone could take offense to you offering a job to someone on their sim who is camping tho. They have their agenda in place and offer camping for whatever reason and they see someone offering anything else as infringing upon that. Not sure exactly what they could AR you for tho. To me that is like when i get annoyed that people come onto my sims where we have rentals and then walk around randomly asking people if they want to see THEIR rentals someplace else. It certainly isnt against TOS in my book...just kinda bad form. Seems like the camping owner could have just let you know that they dont like it without being so belligerant tho.
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Void Singer
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Join date: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,973
04-05-2009 10:37
From: Ciaran Laval
You can get AR'd for them, people have been here saying they've been AR'd for sending them out.

LL isn't going to do anything about a single IM to a person, unless you are spamming that same IM to lots of others (and even then it's rare for them to take action) if some camper was silly enough to threaten that I'd give them instructions on all the different ways to do it... just for the laughs.

yeah some people are screwy about the whole "don't IM me" thing ::shrugs:: if they blwo up on it, I just stop talking to them.

it's isn't even against policy to headhunt on others land... just bad form.

if you're in the business of providing campers, money trees, and such, you have every right to script in advertisements and offers, although it may turn some off to using them. as long as they continue to use the resource, you have the right to set the terms of it's use.
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Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
04-05-2009 18:30
I suspect that the store owner IS the camper ....(considering the drama that ensued) ....dang alts!

If offering a nice gesture is misconstrued as bad form or if you risk offering it to one of the store owner's alts.....so be it....I'll take my chances.

You're going to be on "someone's" land when you make contact, unless you limit all your conversations to your own property......the owner of the land doesn't "own" that person (unless it's their alt)....and where is the line drawn with your conversation.....whether it's a job offer, handing out some lindens, complimenting them on their clothes, or talking about the weather.

And if you are a store owner masquerading as a camper.....do NOT tease me with your PhotoShop skill resume....that is entrapment!

You also might want to jack up your pay from 3 lindens an hour to something a tad less "pitiful."

If an av forwards my conversation with them to another av....and the other av is the same person as the av forwarding it .....is that a violation of TOS? :)
Void Singer
Int vSelf = Sing(void);
Join date: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,973
04-05-2009 20:30
From: Mickey Vandeverre
And if you are a store owner masquerading as a camper.....do NOT tease me with your PhotoShop skill resume....that is entrapment!

You also might want to jack up your pay from 3 lindens an hour to something a tad less "pitiful."

hehe, and amen... seriously if you're trying to trick extra campers to wait around for your own bot to get off, you might want to at least sweeten the pot =X

From: someone
If an av forwards my conversation with them to another av....and the other av is the same person as the av forwarding it .....is that a violation of TOS? :)

lol good question, AR them anyways! (kidding)
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