SL and non SL people and the land of nothing (Rambling)

Hi.
About me:
I've been in SL for about two weeks along with my wife. We found SL throught a TV special and decided to join as a business venture. During these past weeks we leased a 4096 beach plot and I've spent my time both building and discovering what other folks have done.

On the other hand my wife spends her time dancing, hanging out, conversation etc. Really enjoying herself in the diverse world.
Since then I've realized that any significant RL profits aren't going to be made (I think only a few well-established folks do). That's OK by me- more power to them. I'm just enjoying learning SL. We annually IM many global friends and relatives in the past using Micro$oft. I've been focusing my attention on creating a wonderful place for us to meet in SL.

Last night we bought an expensive estate home which my wife absolutely loves. I mean she's just crazy about it and wants to show everyone. The fact that I didn't have to spend weeks of building frees more time to spend with her in both RL and SL.

Now that I have a little time in SL and getting more familiar with the place, along with purchasing the home - is beginning to feel more like "Home". It's very odd explaining SL to my non-SL friends/peers (Most + 45yrs old) especially because everything is virtual, most just give a blank look about how anybody could ever be interested in such a "Silly" concept.

Some say it's just a scam. While land *is* very expensive, just a little RL money buys a large amount of L$, and lots of good quality free stuff as well.
It's really strange being "drawn" into a place that doesn't exist, meeting at places that aren't really there but with people who really are *somewhere*. I'm not sure what attracts people to SL: It's not really doing things you can't do in RL because it's all virtual and you're really not doing it at all.

I'm not slamming the game or it's residences, just confused what the attraction is, of which I'm part of.

Just rambling out loud.

I'm a fine one to talk because I am more or less taking a break from SL right now and being quite happy not being in SL.

But I have to object to the idea that SL places are "not there" just because they are not physical, real places.

Actually the fact that they are not physical real places gives them a bit of an advantage in some respects.

I fantasize about running a RL Madhu's Cafe. In RL, though, I'd have to spend a buttload of real money to build the place and run it; I'd have to figure out how much coffee to buy, figure out how much milk to buy so I don't run out and don't lose too much to spoilage, wash cups, clean the espresso machine, clean the bathroom, and pay rent. If I felt like taking a break from the cafe, I'd either have to pay someone to run it for me, or I'd have to close it down for a while. Oh, and I'd have to quit my day job too.

In SL, I don't have to worry about all those things; I pay a few dollars a week in tier (which I recoup in donations when I am running regular parties at the cafe), and I get to play at running a cafe. I can be there when I feel like. If I don't feel like it, I don't have to be there, and other people can still go and enjoy it.

And when I am sitting in my cafe having a conversation with someone in the UK, someone in Italy, and someone in India, that's a connection, an opportunity to interact with people, that is as real as can be, even though the place isn't "really" there.

To me, that's a pretty enjoyable way to spend a few dollars and a few hours. And I'm certainly not going to justify it against the scoffs of people who spend their evenings watching television and whatnot.

when I program normally that program typically sits on my box with only me seeing it.

when I script I show off what I've done, and it's a bit more fun considering how simple LSL scripting is(despite it's annoying limits).

There's also that whole oh wow a programmer, must be a geek, in RL. in SL it's oh look a scripter and you can socialize with it... Instead of intimidating people who don't know you without trying...

The way I look at it is this:

You pick up the phone and dial a friend's number who lives hundreds of miles away. They answer the phone and you have a conversation.

Are you actually speaking to them? No. You're hearing a reproduction of their voice, they're hearing a reproduction of yours. But you feel like you're together talking.

You e-mail someone, or you IM some one, same sort of thing. None of those experiences actually bring you physically together with your friends or family, but they give you the feeling of being there with them, to some degree.

SL or other similar worlds heighten that even more by giving you a simulated physical presence. Studies show that students who take classes in a virtual world feel more of a bond to their classmates than students taking web courses.

SL is just a new and different means of gaining a feeling of presence.

P2

You see, that's exacly right, and a point of my post!

The entire SL world is indeed very real. One can practically touch it. Enjoy it. Exploit it. Both loose and make RL money in it. It shares both a reality "plane" and non-reality both at the same time.

I could complain about the money I pay my leasee, but we get so much enjoyment out of the game the point is moot: to buy a single good delivery pizza amounts the same.

A good +55yr old friend of mine plays micro-soldier games with his other buddies and spends more on it than I do in SL. His comment about SL: "If I spend my time playing toy solders then I guess you're not too crazy spending time in SL"

I haven't had a chance to "Mingle" yet, just been busy building but still am attracted to the whole SL. My wife is an open conversationalist and is having a blast.

I don't suppose it's possible that your name implies that you yourself were actually involved in Xerox Parc? If so, *bows*, thank you for your gifts to we humble followers!

It's bizarrely appropriate that someone with your name is a little puzzled about SL's attractions, even while swiftly learning it and obviously appreciating it and having fun. The folks at Parc invented the GUI desktop, mouse, laser printing ... and never quite seemed to grasp the importance of their concepts and prototypes.

SL is like those inventions ... laser printing wasn't anything completely new, it just made printing so fast, easy and inexpensive that it changed the way small offices got work done. SL is not mind-blowingly new, it just makes shared 3D visualization, collaboration and socializing so much easier that it has the potential to change the way part of humanity interacts with each other.

It's very easy in SL to find myself chatting with a stranger who has particular interests in common with me; I cannot judge them by their nationality, skin color, financial status or accent because I can't see or hear those things! It's easy for us to build something and show it to each other. It's easy to attend a meeting while in my bathrobe at home. Yes, IRC, videoconferencing, 3D build tools all existed before this ... but SL is easier and more fun.

I don't refer to it as a game - it is more like a 3D version of the web. At, least that's what it COULD be. It is of course different things to different people, a blank slate that is whatever we make it. In that respect it has nearly infinite potential, and I believe that's the attraction to those who stay with it. Those that don't get it, I don't worry about.

Personally I'm going through a bit of frustration with the whole thing because I'm not able to do what I really want to do in SL - that is to create environments, other worlds, surreal places, that intrigue and entertain people. I have a bit of land for it, but there just isn't time and mental focus in my life right now for that.

Instead I go in world and putter with building, I don't get very far, and I get bored. I go to a place that features topics I'm really interested in and no one else is ever there. Instead they are all chatting about nothing in their own little groups at telehubs. Or sometimes it seems the vast majoity of residents really are just interested in the sex clubs. I have no moral issues with that, but there should be many many more things to do than just that.

But I've been a resident for well over a year. Others who have felt this way have taken a break from it, have come back, and the magic is there again. I know that's probably what I need to do.

I envy you, with all you have yet to discover.

No, but thanks for asking !

That about sums it up. Spending time in SL is no different than any other hobby or leisure activity , and doesn't need any more justification.

Is SL real? It depends a bit how you look at it. It's like asking what art is - there's no definitive answer.

On an emotional level SL can be real. Even if a rational RL mind knows it's all done by electronics, one's emotions can feel it's real.

Fantasy worlds have existed since ancient times - from ancient myths through to sci-fi films. But SL requires your input. An RL gives something of themself to create a presence. When I've fallen off a sky platforms, so far I've never done more than cut my knee and break my sunglasses. If I did that in RL, I'd have been killed!

Exactly! I've completely lost interest in finishing my life-size model of Mao Tste Tung made from sesame seeds since I've been in SL.

I wonder how many hours some of your friends might spend sitting passively in front of a television set.
Now that's silly!

What is this "television set" thing that you speak of?

I'm 49. I hear you.

People who do not play SL don't 'get' SL. They sometimes have to get in there and experience it for themselves, and sometimes they still don't get it. It's not for everyone. I have a little place of my own and it's as much 'home' for me as my own apartment. There are relationships I have in SL, and ones I have in RL, and they often have the same qualities.

Not everything in SL is virtual. The people aren't. The personalities driving the avatars are the same when they walk away from the computer. I think that's what makes SL so attractive. It's a way of communicating with people as people, without all the noise - bodies, body language, speech and accents, pheromones and so forth - tainting the interaction. We can be who we are inside, others can too, and communicate on that level.

Welcome to SL, Zerock. To you and the missus..

Personally, I think it's all about engagement, and people engage for different reasons.

Like, a friend of mine played SL for a bit and then claimed it was "just a fancy talker which takes your money for fake stuff". Yet he happily played Anarchy Online for hours - and paid for it - and was happy to treat its environments as "real" (although of course he never actually described them as real).

I think there's a certain aspect of "what's in it for me" involved: if you enjoy having an estate house then you'll be more likely to become immersed because you like it. If you have a competitive streak and you don't like having a small house in the shadow of your neighbour's mansion you'll call everything fake. It's a _sort_ of sour grapes, but not quite, because unlike in that example nobody is really sure if the grapes are sour or not, and in fact, if everyone on the planet thought that the grapes were sour they would be.

you think too much. just have fun and don't worry about anyone's motivations, especially your own.

For me, personally, a lot of it is about comfort levels and safe places. There are times when I am so content when I'm inworld, I would be happy to let my av sleep in his bed all night and not log him off when I go to sleep (I haven't done this in an age, though, as it's a waste of electricity and I wouldn't want to attract howls of, "Log off if you're not using it, ya selfish git; I can't get in!" on the forum *g*). There is something of a strange comfort in the fact that he's sleeping soundly, sometimes cuddled up with his lover, when I'm not at the keyboard, however briefly. Even when I need to go AFK for a bit, I'll usually send him home to lounge on the couch, sleep on the bed, or sprawl in one of the steamer chairs on the decking, rather than let him stand like a motionless automaton in the middle of a store.

As to safe places, I think many of us with homes get as attached to our SL homes as we do our RL homes. While we might tear the building down and create a new one every now and then, the *space* is ours, and the *land* is ours. And the longer we live in that particular place, the more of a pull it would be to leave it. I equate my long-time SL home with my RL home now, and while it would be a *much* more physical inconvenience to lose my RL home, I would still feel adrift if I lost my SL home.

Why are people so eager to find fault with others' pastimes? I mean, I don't feel the need to ridicule golfers... ummm... Okay: bad example.

As Willy the Shake put it, "All the world's a stage," and SL just gives us different characters to play--plus really great sets, props, and special effects.

Ultimately, all reality is what we perceive, and SL gives us an alternate set of perceptions. These alternate perceptions are available in dazzling array from which we can choose whenever we want to connect, and for only just as long as we want to stay connected. It's much, much cheaper than a mescaline habit. (Aldous Huxley, eat your heart out.)

None of which will mean anything to RL friends. I'd take a little ball and whack it with a long metal stick, and say "I refute it thus!" This wouldn't work either, but it's one way to get rid of a golf ball.

I don't even mention SL at work these days, unless it's to someone who plays games online and at least understands what it's like to get lost in another world for hours at a time.

A co-worker once asked me why I wasted my money on a game, renting a house that doesn't exist, buying clothes that are mere pixels. I asked him why he burned (smoked) £5 a day, drank his way through a good £70 - £100 a weekend, and watched about £40 a month (Sky satellite subscription).

"Because I enjoy all those things," he replied.

I gave him my most pointed look. "Exactly," I said. And his reponse?

"But my things are REAL."

At that point, I gave up. With some people, it just ain't worth even trying

I've never mentioned it at work. The closest I came was last week when I was trying to explain to our systems analyst and developer -- a very attractive and erudite lady geek--why I have been so patient with the new web based software rolling out for our department's use that keeps crashing or kicking us out. "I am already well familiar with the instabilities of web based applications with data that does not reside client side, for reasons I won't go into," I said.

That brought a little smile. I bet she put two and two together. Maybe she already walks around Second Life as a Neko or something.

Uh oh -- what if she's on these forums!

What if she does..........he he he he he

I have to ditto Madhu's comments.

I have met a ton of great people in SL. People I would have never met otherwise.

I played an online soldier game for a long time but never made any friends doing it.

Have fun and enjoy.

"CX"

I see very attractive and erudite lady geeks.
They're everywhere!!

It's an emotion-experience in which we must suspend our disbelief. So we are really making our own theatre. And it's intellectual because we have to think and converse (in different ways). There are new ways of love to explore. New horizons. Just enjoy it. Oh, and you can feel envy and jealousy here and you can even be mortal in an immortal environment. I wonder how long the sl marriage bit will last ...