WHY Can't The Lindens PREVENT This??!!

Yesterday I was browsing the web looking for a tutorial on a specific script. What I found instead GREATLY disturbed me. I don't want to give too much info here, but the upshot is that I was able to install a program that, when logged on to SL, captures EVERY texture that renders in the original format of the texture. Skins, eyes, clothes...they all were downloaded directly to my computer. I am MORTIFIED! I was aware of CopyBot, but I honestly thought those days were behind us. Is there no way for something to be added to the viewer to prevent this? I WAS able to recover a texture I had applied to a product and then promptly LOST, but beyond that I am unable to think of a single productive use for this "product". Now every time someone spends too much time at our store in one place, I'm going to be paranoid that they are lifting our textures! GRRRRRR!!!! There are too many "geniuses" on this forum alone to think that ONE of you can't come up with a way to prevent this from happening, either on the viewer side or inworld on an individual's property! I'll tell you this--if someone comes up with a way to install something inworld, I'd pay big bucks to keep others from thievery.

Sorry, but It's old news and nothings changed. There are other threads that cover this subject. Best left to history.

If you're talking about Glintercept then you're a bit late to the party it's been around forever and they can't prevent it because the way computers work the image always has to be rendered so it can be displayed and unless you control it all the way through the screen (which is impossible) then you can't stop someone who really wants to steal textures.

Gordon, that's exactly what I was talking about, though I was hesitant to post the url. I can't believe that I am so late on this one....I also can't believe there's no work around. Powerful program, that. ANYONE can lift ANYTHING. I guess what surprised me was the format. Skins are laid out the way they need to be to be used--it's not just the "texture" you get, it's the whole layout. No wonder there's so much thievery. WAY too easy. :: sigh ::

It isn't possible. The textures all go through your video card to be rendered. This program captures the texture in the video cards memory itself not in SL. The only way to stop it is to not allow rendering. Then we are back to text chat.

Because the program in question uses the graphics cache.

The program has to send all that data from the servers to the local computer to be drawn on screen. As such, it can be read from the cache and stored.

There is no way around that.

Anything that has to be sent from the server to the local machine can be. and will be by the less honest. copied and recorded if they can find a way.

It's like DRM on games and movies. You see cracked versions hitting the download sites within days if not hours of release.

Someone will find a way to cheat the systems.

Well thanks for at least not making me feel like a total dork for not knowing this was possible 'til now. What a wakeup call. I can't imagine trying to make it here as a texture artist--how demoralizing.

You're a bit late to the I don't want to mention names party to, it used to be that people were actually harassed for mentioning the name Glintercept, not to mention linking to it, until they got over it spurred partially because I added a link on my sig until recently when I changed my sig format. Not mentiong the name or linking to it is poinstless and stupid.

I think it was put better above but simply put short of making people buy computers specifically for every single program where all the computer's software and even the hardware are locked down and booby trapped to prevent tampering and nothing can be changed there is no way to prevent this.

Better to know.....I never bought into the "ignorance is bliss" thing. I just think it's certainly changed the way I view loitering....lol.

The short answer is that scripts are the only really secure thing in SL, because they _only_ run on the sim. With all the other stuff being sent to your viewer, and with SL being open source for about 2 years now, you can capture EVERYTHING else..

Why are you letting your discovery of GLIntercept change the way you view things?

It has been around for a long time.

There are many of them, and most have already been mentioned and hashed over in the past in these very forums.

GLintercept?
CacheViewer?



Skins of other avatars are "baked" and uploaded by the client to display to everyone else, so others cannot get your base "skin"/"tattoo"/"clothing" images by themselves (unless you are wearing ONLY one base, then the compositing will be of that single base). Basically, think layers in Photoshop or GIMP. Your viewer gets the images for the layers, then does the "flatten" operation, uploads that back up to the simulator, and that image is what is handed to everyone else's viewer.



Sure! Have everyone throw away all their existing hardware and software, and buy the newest DRM-hobbled crapware which is tightly controlled by the Government, the RIAA, the MPAA, the SPA, the ESA, etc. Then no one will be able to copy anything, even if it constitutes legitimate and legal fair use!

Outside of that, no. There is _NO_WAY_ to prevent, or even reasonably deter, the ability for someone to make copies of digital media stored in a computer, at least in a technical fashion. No amount of software (and pretty much hardware) DRM has ever proven effective against copyright infringement, and from theoretical research on the subject, there is no indication it is even possible to fully prevent it.



Well, you've come up with one, just off the cuff; there are no doubt others. Even if that was the only one, I would argue that it was still a significant non-infringing use of the tool to justify its existence.



Maybe, but there's no reason to be paranoid about it. Yes, it is probable that it will happen. It will suck when it does, too. However, you DO have recourse, the same as everyone else does: file a DMCA complaint. It's really pretty easy, and LL does (for the most part, anyway) take them seriously, and act appropriately on them.

It's like being paranoid and never setting foot outside your home because someone is going to come rob you or murder your family. Yes, it is always a possibility, but the probability is VERY low and, at least in the case of copyright infringement, the damage is comparatively small, especially with respect to the recourse available.

My suggestion? Get over it, and get on with your life. If/when it happens, deal with it. It's not the end of the world, and is not even worth the energy to worry over it to the point where it affects you adversely in RL. Sure, be aware, watch out for infringement, and vigorously prosecute those whom you catch, but outside of simple vigilance and determination, don't let it affect you negatively at all. Most especially, don't go hysterical and buy one of those useless "Copy(Bot)Right Protection Systems" that spam everyone. They never worked, and can get you in a heap of trouble for spamming.



Even the geniuses outside this forum who have spent their ENTIRE REAL LIVES studying this problem by itself cannot come up with a way to prevent it from happening (without resorting to Draconian measures like the one above), so you shouldn't be expecting a whole lot from the rest of us geniuses who are not nearly as focused or knowledgeable on the subject.

You're not the only one who would pay big bucks for it; in fact, the organizations listed above HAVE paid big bucks, like in the BILLIONS (that's with a "B" of dollars, trying to achieve it, and continue to do so. So far, they have been met with little more than EPIC FAIL.

You can choose to be paranoid about your creations being ripped off or you can choose to be aware of the problem an do what you can to minimized the potential for theft. Making your creations unique so they can be readily identified as copies is about the most effective way of "protecting" your property.......but that is pretty hard to do for most people since almost everything made in SL is just a minor variation on something else already made by sometone else. Evidently 'watermarking" is not terribly useful.......which would be a method that could possibly stem some of the content theft that goes on.

If you choose the paranoid route and start questioning customers or browsers in your store simply because they are lingering (loitering) too long you are apt to loose much more than you'd ever gain in the way of business. Someone question me for "loitering" in a store, I'm out of there......gone and never to come back. There are just too many stores in SL that sell the same item so much similar to whatever it was that was "loitering" about while looking or deciding to purchase that I can thumb my nose at any creator who decides I'm a suspicious character because I happen to spend longer in the store than they think I should, I'm not alone in that belief either.

I can sympathize with your concerns. But, it really is not my problem.....it's yours. I don't want to have to deal with it in any way..........even being questioned about my time spent in a store. And it's my choice to leave and never come back.....which I would do in a heartbeat.

Most people in the world are honest.........treat them as such. If you are afraid of some thief stealing your stuff then deal with the thief only. Don't even let me think you are suspicious of me or I'll drop your business like a red hot branding iron in a camp fire. If you are that paranoid then maybe you should find some other way to satisfy your creativity.

Now that you've told them about it, that's probably what they will be doing

I guess to those techno inclined, it doesn't come as any surprise. I didn't know this could be done. I personally couldn't be arsed figuring out how to do it, remember that lots of people are not technically inclined, they're just consumers like me, with no clue about these things. I'm sure your sales won't be seriously affected, esp if this has been around for yonks.

Peggy has a very good point.

Do not question customers about the time they're spending in your store. Should this happen to me, I would leave and not return. I can spend ages looking at items in a store, I can leave and return several times before I purchase something.

always good to post links to it on the forum, maybe add a tutorial for noobs too

Not wishing to give a "tutorial", but they do not need to stand in your shop.

If you want to protect textures in your shop, add a watermark to them. Make sure that the watermark is imprinted on the texture as uploaded.

I have a tendency to enter a store, move away from the landing point and away from the entrance and then stand in that one spot while I cam around the entire store looking at stuff. Whether or not I'll buy anything has nothing to do with me just standing. Sometimes I'll end up buying tons of items, sometimes only a few items, and sometimes I'll buy nothing but might return to buy tons another day.

Ask anyone that knows me well -- not only do I scour the grid for realy nice freebies and cheap deals, but when I find clothing I like I will drop thousands and thousands of L$ in a store and buy just about everything. If you do not sell women's dresses, then you may not care about my buying habits, but whatever you sell, there is probably someone that buys it in a manner similar to the way I shop.

If a store owner ever approached me with suspicions that I might be stealing their textures just because I had not moved around in the store, I would very likely leave and never return to that store again. My advice therefore is to be very careful about what types of assumptions you make about customers standing around your store.

Peggy, while I appreciate your response, I think the "If you are that paranoid then maybe you should find some other way to satisfy your creativity" comment was a little over the top. I was, to some extent, being sarcastic with the "paranoid" comment. I would, for the record, NEVER question a customer about lingering "too long" (note the subjectivity in 'too long'). The ONLY time we've ever done this is when a woman started logging in to our location every day, never moving (I'm talking ten hours a day) and then logging off. It was good for traffic, but each day we had to "bump" her from the landing point. After a week, we finally banned her, as she showed up nude and refused to acknowledge any requests to stand either to the side or somewhere else in the store.

We have lots of folks tp in and cam to shop--we are script heavy so lag is always an issue. When I talk about "lingering", however, I'm talking about avis who stand for, literally, hours and refuse to acknowledge a greeting or attempt to engage him/her in conversation. I've been in business in RL and SL long enough to know that questioning anyone who came is financial suicide! Word of mouth is a powerful tool, and bad news spreads faster than good.

Thanks to everyone for the responses. I was just, again, shocked at how easy it was to lift things that folks spend hours creating.

Yea that!

I have been in Sweetest Goodbye today for over 2 hours.

Looking, buying, trying on, chatting, rinse and repeat. And i logged out there too and will probably buy more once i log back in and stand around for 15 minutes or so.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I can't think of many stores that have their intellectual property on display in a way that could be downloaded by just lingering. Certainly not a clothing store. They may have pictures of everything, but that's not enough to duplicate the clothing item. There may be some models wearing a small number of specific items, and I suppose other customers may put things on as soon as they buy them, but for the most part, the thief would have to buy things to actually see the textures, which could then be stolen.

I don't buy textures, but I'd assume that their displays are at a lower resolution than the actual textures, or else have a visual watermark.

Eyes are the one exception that come to mind, because the displays are close-ups, and so are likely to have a lot of the detail. Audio gestures are another example, but they need a different set of tools to steal them.

I'd be more suspicious of someone buying a great deal of similar items than someone just lingering.

Kidd, we have an aviary where most of the birds are on display and flying....

It's quite common for me to stop paying attention to SL and leave my avatar in one place inert for hours.

This does not mean I'm stealing textures, it could mean I've gone to sleep, or in some cases I might be answering questions from these forums, using web browsers on both machines to research the problems.

I hover outside and above stores while shopping. I do not enter the store, and do not move at all.

I am probably the most suspicious person you will ever see. But thats just how I shop, and I am not likely to change that.

it bears mentioning that at one point not only was there link to the program, but also a video tutorial on it's use.... by LL... not sure if it was purged or not, I believe so.