Transfer or NO transfer

guess i was in the wrong spot earlier....

my items are no transfer and it's starting to be a hassle. people buy and oops... it's a gift. i do have my signs, but of course there's the few who choose to ignore this. which is the best option or should i stand my ground and say NO REFUNDS?

Hard to give a refund on a NO TRANSFER item, since they can not transfer back to you.

As long as your 'no refund' policy is clear to see, stand your ground.

here's an example: girl bought a ring and belt wednesday. now tells me it's for a girlfriend. i agreed to give another ring to the gf since item is no transfer. but now said the belt is a gift too. haven't decided if i should be nice or not about giving another freebie away. basically, she and her gf will end up having 1 each. my sign states to message me for gifts, haven't put in the NO REFUND part in yet.

You're not required to ever issue a refund.

That said, bad word of mouth travels faster than good word of mouth. You can still judge on a case-by-case basis (i.e. a guy avie buying an evening dress is probably an honest mistake), just don't actually change your stated policy.

*If* you feel they're being sincere and honest, still don't issue a refund, but simply ask who they intended to give it as a gift to and drop it on them yourself. You're not out any money and you end up with a satisfied customer, at the very worst someone got an item for free.

Then make sure to add a note in the profile (last tab) of the "gifter" and the "giftee" so if anything funny is going on you'll know it happened to that person before.

(Edited to add that with your second message: simply hold yourself to a "one mistake per customer" policy using the note you put in people's profile as a reminder)

I wouldn't recommend a no-refunds policy. If someone doesn't like an item they bought from me, for any reason, I don't want them to have to pay for it. Checking permissions BEFORE the purchase is a basic responsibility of the buyer, but even so, mistakes happen. I'd rather let the occasional scammer get away with an unjustified refund than risk losing legitimate customers. Make people happy, and they'll keep coming back.

Anyway, I sell everything no-transfer. I want people to be able to make as many copies as they want, and it obviously wouldn't make any sense at all to have something be copyable AND transferable. For clothing, people need to be able to copy items in order to put them in different outfit folders. For other items, rezzing a no-copy item in-world is just too risky. It's too easy to forget where you put something, to have a landowner delete it on you, or to lose it to a sim crash. To prevent all those things, having a backup in inventory is essential.

As far as gifts go, it's easy enough for someone to buy through OnRez or SLX if they want to give an item to someone else, or they can just contact me directly, hand me the money, and I'll send the item to the recipient myself. It's really not a big deal.

Well you've got yourself into a bit of a position having already given them one refund, so I would perhaps bite the bullet and give them the belt on this occasion, clearly stating to them that there will be no refunds for any further mistakes made. Then, stand your ground from that point on with any customer.

Make sure that you have your no refund policy stating the reason (no transfer perms), and also make sure that each item/display also has the perms clearly identified.

As starfire has pointed out, a customer would not be able to return the item, and so refusing a refund is not unreasonable, especially if you have clearly stated your policy and perms.

Refunds I would not give, but it is important to say that somewhere in the shop as well.
On the other hand, giving a belt to the girlfriend it was ment for, isnt going to cost you, thats the nice thing about SL stuff So I would give the girl the benefit of the doubt, while making a note on her profile as wel as her girlfriends. The worst that can happen is that you got scammed for 2 articles. The best that can happen is that word spread around that you give perfect customer service

Greetings, Marcel

That's very understanding Chosen. I suppose we each have to find where our own line is drawn - it's good to get another (very different) opinion on it.

I sell all my Items Transfer, No Copy. It serves me well, as I sell very complex scripted objects, which can sometimes have issues, or configuration problems. If the purchaser couldn't send them back to me for diagnosis and sometimes replacement, I would be in what I would consider an bad position. It's really a matter of personal choice, and what you make. If 99% of your problems are simply people not reading signs, i wouldn't change because of that. If you are finding more and more situations that necessitate transfer back and forth of items, No Copy/Trans is a viable and widely used option.

Around the holidays you may want to make 2 versions of your items..so people WILL buy them as gifts

Why do these people who sell items make them no modify or/and no transfer? I mean what's the real reason?

They will say so it's not resold and so it's not changed as far as no modification is concerned. But I think they forget that once they sell whatever it is they're selling, it's no longer theirs and it's no longer their business what people do with what they brought. Unfortunately, they don't see it this way.

This is where their egos take over. According to many of them, they don't want someone changing or re-selling their "designs" like if they actually invented what they sold. Or like if they were real life designers. It's a game, it's not rl.

Many people don't buy 'no modify' items no matter what it is. I know I don't. As far as no transfer items, that's another thing that should be abolished due to these types of reasoning.

Copiable items if household or land items is fine being made copiable. But for clothes, you don't need them to be copiable. Who needs more then one of the same exact clothes? Even if they're modifiable once you change the color of clothes whatever design is on their is now covered by whatever different color you've added to it. So changing the color isn't really an option unless its a solid color to begin with.

Full Copy, No Transfer makes a lot of sense for a lot of things. Motorcycles are good that way because they can be easy to lose. You should set up a gift policy and post a sign. Either they can contact you, have them fill out a notecard with payment, etc. Even gift certificates. I've seen all these methods used. If you do it right you could have a no-copy, transfer certificate they can use at the vendor to exchange for the actual item. It would require some fancier scripting than a typical vendor but I'm pretty sure that can be done.

Friends have given me several items as gifts which came to me through the vendor and I always got them promptly. Just an IM can be effective if you're available often.

Rather than worrying about refunds, just try to give the customer what they want. If you have no transfer stuff then make a gift policy.

^^ no modify: well, if you can mod it you can replicate it.

I signed up as a service - a gift consultant. So my idea was to gather like items, and package them or donate them and do the shopping myself. I can recover my cost in time that it took to gather the items, but now I'm in a real mess - I have an interest in probably 7 like items for a sim. Do I go to the vendor directly and get permissions? What if the creator no longer is on SL?

What I have done, as I muddle my way through this process, is give the notecard, tp, and item to my "client". I originally thought that vendor groups would make sense, for communication purposes, but everyone is interested in word-of-mouth advertising, but not really wanting to take the time to hire the consultant that shares the information.

I've also actually gone shopping and shared items with friends. And, that's fun to do because I really enjoy the experience and I like to promote vendors/creators/artists/innovative or even vintage SL information to folks. Or, even clearing out my inventory with items that can be packaged together and itemized in a rezz box is an ideal situation for me and the person receiving the package - whether an individual or a group wanting items for an event - just some examples...

But, I digress. What do you think is the best way to offer my items with no conflicts in packages. That seems to be the best way for me to clear out my inventory and make sure that my non-transfer items are secured for the client that relied on me to give them an original item.

Any thoughts?

Libbi

Kimiko, I'd say put up a sign that says 'non-transferrable items are not refundable'. I see a LOT of stores with this policy. Of course you should allow for some leeway on a case by case basis. If the problem looks more like befuddlement than deviousness I would try to be helpful.

If it happens a lot, you may want to examine to see whether your signs are noticable enough, and clear enough. They may seem obvious to you because you put them there.

Libbi, I think you will need to make contacts with merchants and see who can give you bulk discounts and can change permissions to transferable. If the merchant isn't responding or refuses then there's not much you can do. Just move to another merchant or find a different product.

Well as you pointed out, it's not the same as rl, and so you can't really draw rl comparisons. You can't give someone copy and trans perms in SL, otherwise they can just set up shop selling countless copies of that item themselves. So, it really has to be one or the other, and which of those is the best depends on the nature of the product. Even when it's obvious that one set of perms is more favourable than another for a particular product, you will always get some people who prefer copy, and those that prefer transfer.

With the modify point, I kind of agree with you.

In situations where this happens, i try to find a solution, without immediately going to a refund:

1. Offer to send an item free to the person who wanted the gift in the first place.
2. If not applicable, offer a comparable item of the customers choice for free.

I'm hardly very strict in the 'no refunds' on 'no transfer' part, as I think most of those requests aren't malicious, but stem from a genuine mistake from the purchaser. And I find customer satisfaction more important than my bottom line.

For my most sold items, i offer a 'gift box', which uses a backend server & a transferrable item which on touch gives the no-transfer item. Allowing the advantages of copyable items and still have it transfer.

On the switching items from no-transfer to transfer. Most people don't seem to realize how much of an effort this is. Esp with complex & scripted items, as it requires a complete change of all permissions in all of the content. So I hardly ever do this, except when people want to buy a huge amount.

Modify perms will allow fairly simple duplication of the structure of whatever it is you are selling by script, and for some products the structure is pretty much all it is, so I can understand that in many cases, even if it's a pain that I can't resize my boots.

I tend to be reasonably flexible regarding mod permissions myself, if asked, as the major point of my products is generally their scripting, and if the script is no-trans all a duplicator would end up with is a non-working copy of the prims. But for lots of people that would not be a reasonable option.

Most prefab homes are sold as modify though. I do understand your point Ordinal, and I am kind of wavering on this point.

Of course it's a conflict between making sure a customer has a very usable product and the security of the sellers design. The textures and geometrical parameters of any item in SL can be gleaned from the client, and so anyone who really wants to would be able to replicate any object in SL. There is nothing to stop those individuals, but the trans/copy perms do stop those ethically challenged individuals who could be considered as 'chancers' - those who take advantage of an opportunity when it's dished up to them on a plate. The next question I suppose is then: Is it more effort to replicate an object as a result of enabled modify perms than using other methods. I don't think so, but then there is also the argument that there are those who lack the savvy or knowledge to replicate items the easier way. So perhaps there is that third category of individuals.

I don't think there is an easy yes/no answer, and of course it's up to the seller to weigh everything up and make a decision on this. I think the nature of the product, and the impact that no-modify has on the usefulness of a product would we the decider for me.

You are under no requirement to give anyone a refund. In the 6 months I've been in SL I have never been refused a refund, though, and would make sure others know if I was refused.

If you are selling clothing is there any reason you have made it no transfer? Make life easy on yourself, make these items transferable and give refunds with no hesitation.

No, there isn't an easy answer, certainly, and in the huge majority of cases a mod item will not be copied at all. Most people are honest. Personally I think that it is a bit easier to copy prims using a script rather than via copybot etc, but either way they are both far more effort than just handing out copy/trans stuff.

I think, though, that the nature of the market has changed now that BIABs are more common (or, as I term the practice, "industrial-scale freebie reselling". Before, if there was a full-perms version of a product hanging around, it took some time before it would end up being all over the place, it would likely be outdated by then anyway, and be good publicity for you as well. Now the speed of distribution is far greater, and once one person has duplicated an item, it's impossible to get back. The increased numbers in SL help there too.

Oh no, please don't. I hate nocopy/trans clothes - I like to be able to shuffle them around between folders.

I'd just offer two versions, one copy, one trans. For clothes this isn't too hard. (For scripted objects, as noted above, it's a nightmare, but clothes rarely are.)

I am new to SL but I have run into an issue that has irritated me somewhat as well. I bought a lot and a furnished home. Now I see many furnished homes for sale so I assumed (being new) that it was standard practice. I mean, in RL furnished homes are for sale as well.

After I acquire the property my wife starts checking permissions and we find out that the home is non-transferable. I do some investigating and I contact the creator and she tells me that technically I do not own the home. The home can be copied and used multiple times "in world" but cannot be sold. So, I can buy the home for the same price, put up 1000 units and rent them all BUT I cannot sell the home to another person. To me, I would rather see the house be no-copy and transferable (because I am not a landlord).

So, my choice after buying this home is to by another "house" so I can be the owner BUT I can never sell that house, if I wanted to move, to another person. Perhaps other builders have different policies but I bought this place because I liked the house the way it was - just like I may do in RL.