Cryolife/Cryoban

Sorry to be repetitive but I did search the 'Cryolife' threads before posting this, and have not found the info I need. One of my residents is all in a hoopla about Cryolife and has purchased something called 'Cryoban' that she wants to put on her land. Can anyone give me a knowledgeable explanation of Cryolife, and if it's still a threat, and what Cryoban is? Thanks.

This article might help you.

http://www.kabalyero.com/2009/08/08/detecting-cryolife-and-banning-those-that-use-it/

Thanks Damien, that helps. I see that Ann O'Toole and Rene Erlanger are the creators/sellers of this Cryoban, and they may kick in this thread too. I think my resident is more afraid of the avatar theft feature of Cryolife, as it assumes your name, when it does it's dirty work and says it's you doing it. I also bought the Cryoban and am trying it out. I was just hoping for more input on it. And the neccessity of it.

I also don't know how to get my own UI.

Thanks Nika for the UI help.

/me is

I'm sorry. I'm not being very clear. For example, it masks the identity of it's true avatar with your name. Like you are SuezanneC Baskerville, it will say XXXXX as SuezanneC Baskerville is doing....(whatever horrible thing it's doing; stealing content?). I'm not very clear on it myself and am hoping for input for Ann or Rene here.

I noticed a HUGE problem (or two) with the bot version that's available from par....

for fun, if you know that someone is running it with the provided script you can have anyone you like reported as using cryo and possibley banned (if that is enabled in the script) simply by shouting the right thing into chat....

/666666M Linden The Thief! ( 244195d6-c9b7-4fd6-9229-c3a8b2e60e81 ) is on Cryolife (Not Really =P)

the name really doesn't matter, but the script provided just uses whatever key you feed it.... which for humor should be the bots key. I also theink they messed up their parsing of the bots chat which should actually use "" instead of "", but I can't test it because I don't know what the ping being sent is for it to send out that announcement..., but IF I'm right, even if it detects somone it can't parse the actual string correctly

I'm guessing the actual string the bot sends is
/666666 User Name is on Cryolife (< insert key here >
which pulls the ( along with the key invalidating it as a ban target (invalid key)

ETA:
why would I let that out? well first because it isn't working, and secondly because open listens that aren't authenticated and sanitized are bad juju...

PS
anybody know where I can try this out.... should be good for a laugh.

So basically if you go running around shouting on that channel and get banned it isn't my problem lmao. The code is open source. You can go look at the checks it does.

The old obsolete cryolife is the only thing it detects. It does not detect the newer counterfeiting viewers that are basically modified emerald to have permissions checks on exports removed. It takes what? a 7 year old to figure that out so there are probably half the residents online ripping stuff off at will using hundreds of variants that nobody has ever heard of.

There are still some cryolife users being detected but nowhere near as many as before.

The only defense against counterfeiting is to not introduce the content onto the internet. That is the reality of the situation. But since the guy that wrote cryolife divulged it's operating characteristics then we get to see who is using it. You can also use emerald and "see" who is using cryolife.

There is also a built in feature in some of the counterfeiter viewers the "coders" didn't know about (or they would have disabled it) that allows build identification rather easily but if I mention it then they will take that out too. LL knows about it.

And if Linden Lab was serious about this issue they would have proceeded with the third party viewer policy. But they didn't did they. So since LL is not going to be serious about the issue then you can pretty much see how pointless it is to worry about it.

LL allows those counterfeiter viewers to operate in Second Life as a matter of policy. So if you have a beef with it then you need to take it up with LL.

As for Cryolife you can use the script thing that listens for the radar activity or get the Bot version the emerald guy released if you don't mind risking a bot on your land. Even if they get caught and banned they will be back in 5 minutes on a new account doing the same thing maybe somewhere else. Like going to popular "nightlife" locations to take skins and outfits and hair off of all the beautiful people.

Since most people "stealing" don't set the stuff out for sale you are never going to know about it anyway. Unless you inspect them and see those few day old accounts have amazingly managed to learn the skills to build hair, outfits, shoes, and skins. Inspecting is pretty much the best way to spot them now. That is why they use those dumb anti inspect things. With emerald you simply derender the anti inspect shields till you get to the avatar. Or if you see someone using an anti inspect shield then you know there is something wrong with them and you can think what you want.

Again the only defense against counterfeiting is to not introduce the content onto the internet. As for other "worlds" based on directx the directx ripping tools are and have been more advanced all along and take 3D mesh data from video memory and export the data into common 3D model formats so just because a world is using directx doesn't mean it is safe from "modders".

If it can be seen it can be taken. The only prevention is called cloud rendering and that would be worse. All a cloud rendered system sends to clients is tantamount to watching a streamed movie of the scene. Only rendered frames are sent. Not object geometry. So maybe in 10 years if cloud rendering becomes fashionable there will be a defense against counterfeiting but not anytime soon.

I was more concerned about the open listened script allowing random people to ban anyone around (like the parcel owner, random customers, the bot that's supposed to be doing the work, etc), considering there's no instruction to limit the listen to the bot, and the possibly bad parse disabling it's normal function...

I'm fully aware (as should anyone that reads the forums) that new better things are available to do the same job, and can be easily built to remove the telltales of older versions. but people do still latch onto these things, and they get used way past their expiration date.

PS
glad to see you around and replying btw, and thanks for all the fun toys you build =)

Ann, thank you for commenting here like I asked you to, in IM. But it's not me talking about the bot or whatever, I am genuinely trying to get input from you . So is the cryoban necessary at this point in time? And is there something built into it that allows it to copy? This is why I am asking you because people are saying so many different things. As an estate manager I am trying to find out if this is something I need to have, and, am lucky enough to know who to ask, is all.

The cryoban script is open source. You can see what and how it does what it does.

Someone yelling "so and so is doing this or that" on any channel is not going to cause cryoban to do anything. Doesn't work that way.

People running around trying to spread FUD must have a reason for such behavior right?

So if you want to know how it works then get it from the right place. The script is there for your reading enjoyment.

Also LL can see what people are doing. LL can read your chat, group chat, and IMs. LL can see what listen channels your avatar is using and for what. If LL wanted to then LL can interrogate your viewer for information (not the channel thing). LL did log the set channel when you logged in but that data is pointless since it is an available user override. LL has your inventory and can inspect it at will. Every avatar is an open book to LL. Nothing is hidden from LL. Eventually LL will remove people engaged in behavior LL does not want on it's servers. It is as simple as that.

As for will cryoban detect cryolife in use? Sure there are still some people using it. I suspect most have "upgraded" by now. So, again, your best detection method is to inspect avatars. When you see someone wearing hair you know is from your favorite hair designer and the name of the creator of all the prims in the hair is not the correct designer's name then it is proof positive the creator of the prims is a counterfeiter. And then you can notify the designer since the IP owner is the only one that can do anything about it.

When cryoban was first released last August I predicted it's usefulness would devolve to the level of !quit within 2 weeks. It has lasted a lot longer and probably will last as long as the old obsolete cryolife remains available wherever they are getting it from. But it is important to understand the vast majority of counterfeiters are using the newer viewers that have no published identifying characteristics. So, again, physical inspection of avatars is the only sure way to spot someone using counterfeited content. And you have to be certain of what you are looking at to make such a judgment call.

@Ann:
my comments were about the par-bot + script that was referenced by link above...

FWIW I got ahold of LordGreggreg and let him know about it... apparently he'd be considering taking that version down as obsolete anyways.

The only person someone running around doing things can get banned is themselves and only if they are in the sim and imitate the exact cryolife behavior. Assuming the current version of cryoban is in use and it was obtained from the correct source. So if they want to get themselves banned then more power to them. Is it perfect? Of course not. Nothing is.

The bot version from the emerald guy is more intrusive and actually interrogates avatars coming around so you have that option if you don't mind risking a bot on your land. Or, as earlier stated, you can use emerald and will see anyone using cryolife around you. Right in their name tag.

Or don't worry about it since, seriously, LL allows counterfeiting viewers in Second Life. LL allows them. LL just says you are not supposed to right click and copy without permission. And most people using them are taking copies for personal use so there is never going to be anything to be DMCA'd.

In the long run when SL is a barren wasteland and everything has been copied and there are no more content creators left and SL closes then the people that hate LL because LL banned them for rezzing lol cubes will have won their war they are waging against LL. And that is the real underlying reason all this is going on.

Hi Treasure...i'm not the creator of the CryoBan detector (not a scriptor unfortunately! ) I got my copy from Ann. I do believe you need the latest version though.....1.2.

Ann pretty much nails it on the head with her above messages.

The only thing i can add....is that Cryo Life copybot viewer is really old hat.!! The next generation of Copybot Viewers are far more sophisticated...they actually mask the Emerald Viewer client, so to the world inside...it appears they're using the Emerald Viewer. I'm not going to mention the names of these new viewers (there are several different ones some of which are sold for high amounts of Lindens $).....as i know potential would-be Copybotters read these forums as well as the Xstreet forums.

The reason not to fear Cryo Life anymore, is that it's not being further developed ....as the creator of Cryo Life has now join the GreenLife Emerald development team!! Oh the irony of having 3 different coders that created their own Viewers with Copybot functions, which led to all 3 eventually being permabanned...... are now part of the much loved and much heralded GreenLife Emerald Team. They all have respectable new avatar names now...one actually resides in the Concierge Info Group. (a Linden run Group for SIM owners & Mainlanders) This very same team are now involved in discussions with Linden Labs regarding 3rd Party Viewers. (Script Kiddies & Linden employees in bed together! -lol)

It's a bit like asking ex-burglars to install a new security system for your house! Mind you Banks do employ ex-hackers to bolster up their own network security systems....so anything is possible!

To be honest it's VERY high risk downloading any future 3rd party Client. It won't be long now that malicious malware or Trojan horses or hack tools are embedded into the Client.......much like they were with IRC clients. You'll end up pressing a functionality button wondering what it does.....on the surface it will appear to do nothing.....behind the scenes you've just accepted a "trojan server" plant, which is merrily making it's way to your Hard Drive. Trust me....it won't be long for this next generation of Client to surface.
Someone recently mentioned that there's a 3rd party client out there ...that phishes for your login passwords! Spooky!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phishing


.

Rene,
Thank you so much for answering this question. I asked a question in a nice way, for a reason obviously, because I don't understand enough to figure it out myself. I don't need to be told that a 7 year old can figure out the answer, there was no reason to speak to me that way. But your explanation is clear and non confrontational, although I don't know what I did to cause hostility and confrontation to begin with. I thought that it was great that I actually knew the right person to ask, from the Forums. But thanks for your response, at least I have a glimmer now. Everybody isn't script savvy and to be told 'the code is Open Source, you can read it for yourself', was simply not true. If I knew where to go, and could read it myself, then I wouldn't have had to ask.

I don't think Ann meant any harm...it was just a flippant comment,... implying that because the open source documents are already out there in the public domain....even average talented coders could potentially put together a 3rd party client with a few tweaks here and there. It was a throw-away comment....not directed specifically to you, but more of a generalisation. I think Ann is generally frustrated and annoyed with Copybotting as are most like minded residents. It's kind of a helpless situation without seeing light at the end of the tunnel!

I think the short version is that using Cryoban can't hurt (though there's a risk -- the extent of which is a matter of debate -- of getting false positives) but that, more importantly, it's only of limited utility because there's already at least one widely-used crooked viewer (widely used by people who use that sort of thing, I mean) that not only avoids Cryoban's checks but can very easily pass itself off as being any sort of viewer the crook feels like, including the official one.

If I had questions about how it worked, I would also come here to the forums because I am not a scripter and therefore better than 90% of most scripts make little sense to me.

It doesn't hurt having Cryo Ban on your lands as at least it detects 1 malicious viewer. Over time i'm expecting usage of Cryo Life to diminish in favour of the newer generation of CopyBot viewers.
It's hardly surprising that the Emerald Life viewer can detect Cryo Life....considering it's creator now works for Emerald. He should be able to know how to detect his own Viewer i.e what channels it uses -.....it's funny how Emerald Life can't detect any of the other malicious 3rd Party viewers though! lol......like you stated some of the new generation of Copybot Viewers masquerade as Emerald Life or the Official viewer.

So basically you are making libelous statements attacking my credibility while in the same thread stating you are not capable of reading or understanding the code involved.

The code detects the radar cryolife uses. The person exhibiting this behavior must be an avatar and must be in the same region as the detector. If you set it up certain ways it might teleport home and/or parcel ban the avatar exhibiting the behavior of cryolife. At minimum it will send you enough IMs to let you know who is exhibiting cryolife behavior so you can deal with it. It is worthwhile to point out estate and parcel bans have been broken for some time so it really doesn't matter. People can come and go as they please. See http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4632 for details and the amount of time this has been going on. So seriously not only does LL allow cryolife and all the other purpose built counterfeiting viewers (because, as LL says, they could be used for legitimate purposes) there is literally not a thing you or anyone can do or say about it.

The code is open source and published. So if you have questions or concerns then don't take my word for it. Hire an expert scripter to study the code. Just make sure you get the right code from the right place. And if the expert scripter has input for the code they are more than welcome to participate in making it better.

Personally I view this entire thread as a defamation attack. Now why would anyone be attacking someone that helps designers prevent cryolife users from hanging around? What is the motivation here? I would love to know. After all the guy that wrote cryolife is the one who explained how to detect it so if the cryolife fans have a beef then they need to go take it up with the cryolife author that is now purported by numerous people to be on the emerald team.

I don't think Treasure was attacking you...i think she started out just wanting to get general information on both Cryo Life and CryoBan on behalf of one her Residents who was having a tizzy! Somehow over the 2 pages....it's all gone a bit pear shape! (misunderstandings)

I'd say so, yes...

for anyone unsure, the script I referenced wasn't the CryoBan Script, but an entirely different script that is used in conjunction with a bot client available from the PAR page and was one of the cryo detection schemes listed on page referenced in the OP link...

ergo nothing to do with the radar detection script of Ann's (though when she responded I thought we were talking about that, and not the other which seems to have cause some confusion)

OMG. I am so sorry I came here to ask this. Someone asked me about it, and I came here to ask because I did not know the answers. I don't understand scripting or coding. The thread got derailed but not by me. I had honest questions about if it was something I needed to have. I don't know how to read code or scripts. I thought that I could ask here and that since I'd seen Ann post here before, she'd respond with the answers. I had no idea it would turn into this, and I am so sorry.

I apologize, Ann, for this thread. Your credibility has never been in question and I did not mean my questions to appear that way.

I am asking the mods to close it.