Land Bubble has Officially Burst, and LL Pours it On!

Right. I don't even see how they can do much after the continents are essentially complete.

When asked about the failed auctions, Jack did mention the possibility of LDPW going into the unsold sims and adding some content to make them more marketable. But I just look at vast swaths of Satori, Nautilus, and Corsica with no provision for any roads at all, and wonder how any of that will ever be worth anything. (Jeogeot at least got a few paths that could be roads someday.)

I remember there was a time that people just wanted to buy the most sq.m. the sim could hold, for resale, back when "flat green" was worth something. And there was (and is) concern about what happens to the oddly-shaped bits of land bordering roadways. But these days, featureless Mainland is a losing proposition, and it's kind of hard to see what will turn that around.

OK, but
"renting and real estate crumbled" and "everyone got fed up and left" are two separate things and they are not related to each other for the general population.

Renting a build makes sense for someone who doesn't have the skills and/or attitude to rezz a prefab or build their own.
There's always going to be a demand for some of
- Build renting
- Well scripted house rezzers that advise the user and keep a build level and within parcel boundaries
- Help (paid or unpaid)

Real Estate as a business is nonsense in SL, particularly when LL are printing more land.
Most people in "the property business" just flip land.
Flattening a piece of what used to be interesting ground and sticking down a few prims that the buyer is going to zap takes a few seconds. It isn't "development".


You want to sell your land? Set it for sale. No lawyers, contracts, viewings, keyholders and all the complications that we pay others to handle on our behalf in RL.
You want to buy land? Go look, click and buy.

When the First Land program was running, people got started out without the aid of the "property business". I did, and all around me in that sim and other sims all around others did the same. It was no big deal. I understand that the main reason the program ended was that it was being raped by the land barons.
LL could easily start selling direct again, and this time at market prices. They could either sell at a set price or just auction everything.
They'd be in competition with land dealers?? Who the hell owes land dealers a living? Most that I have talked to are quite OK people, but we don't owe them a living.


It would be refreshing if the only way to make a few dollars in SL was to provide a real service or create content.
I'd include build rentals in 'real service', because some people are just not cut out to build.


If large numbers of people get fed up and leave, it won't be because they can't make money in the land business. It won't be because there's nothing to do or wonders to see.
They'll only get fed up if the thing continues to be broken.

I don't think I'm expressing my concern very well. In fact I'm on record as having a pretty rotten attitude toward land-flippers.

I'm thinking more in terms of there just being way too much land vs. the amount of people around to use it. I probably shouldn't have used the term "Real Estate." What I meant by that is what people from Anshe all the way down to little ol' me do: fix up property into attractive communites and rent it out. Maybe SL can do without that industry, or maybe too much land won't hurt the business the way I think it will, but that's where my concern is coming from.

For those of us who are old land owners, we are screwed if we try and move. I wonder if the Bay City parcels that sold at auction for $L 270,000 will ever drop to $L 4.0/m2. That would be funny haha -- oh wait, I have a Bay City parcel I'm trying to sell

For those of us who are old land owners, we are screwed if we try and move. I wonder if the Bay City parcels that sold at auction for $L 270,000 will ever drop to $L 4.0/m2. That would be funny haha -- oh wait, I have a Bay City parcel I'm trying to sell

I don't think I'm expressing my concern very well. In fact I'm on record as having a pretty rotten attitude toward land-flippers.

I'm thinking more in terms of there just being way too much land vs. the amount of people around to use it. I probably shouldn't have used the term "Real Estate." What I meant by that is what people from Anshe all the way down to little ol' me do: fix up property into attractive communites and rent it out. Maybe SL can do without that industry, or maybe too much land won't hurt the business the way I think it will, but that's where my concern is coming from.

If only the minimum parcel size was 512m, 99% of the problems with ad-farms and false pricing would cease overnight.

No doubt that's true. But those industries don't exist in a vacuum. If renting and real estate crumbled and everyone got fed up and left, I can't believe that could be good for any other industry. I'm still doing fine, and I'm not hugely concerned about what my land is worth, because I'm using it and none of it is for sale. But there's a limit even to my formerly unlimited patience.

I don't think I'm expressing my concern very well. In fact I'm on record as having a pretty rotten attitude toward land-flippers.

I'm thinking more in terms of there just being way too much land vs. the amount of people around to use it. I probably shouldn't have used the term "Real Estate." What I meant by that is what people from Anshe all the way down to little ol' me do: fix up property into attractive communites and rent it out. Maybe SL can do without that industry, or maybe too much land won't hurt the business the way I think it will, but that's where my concern is coming from.

I can't believe I'm seeing this, after all these years: land, good land in large chunks, is selling for under 4.0L/m2, I'm even seeing prices at 3.8 or less.

Unbelievably, Linden Labs is pouring dozens of sims on still, even with supply clearly outstripping demand by a wide margin.

I'm glad I'm not a land speculator, mainland has just cratered.

I guess this is good news for the ad farmers though, with so much cheap land to cut up, spoil and dump the leftovers.

I wonder who's going to pay for the electricity on the new servers though.

For those of us who are old land owners, we are screwed if we try and move. I wonder if the Bay City parcels that sold at auction for $L 270,000 will ever drop to $L 4.0/m2. That would be funny haha -- oh wait, I have a Bay City parcel I'm trying to sell

Just a few weeks ago anyone who had a negative opinion of LL's handling of the land market was dismissed by you as "mindless twaddle". I guess now that it affects you personally, your opinion has changed?

I bought a little parcel of land a little while ago. I think that's what really caused the land prices to plummet. That's what happened the last time I bought land.

[re: Linden content on landlocked, roadless sims on newer continents]I think that abandoned land can be used for this purpose. LL and the moles can start creating interesting spaces left on abandoned plots, and start publicizing them as part of a teleportation trail. Develop a story for the continents and keep the attractions in theme. The only substantial difference between Bay City and a privately-developed project is publicity. Those plots would never have sold for that amount otherwise.

I have way too much to say on the adfarming issue to stay on topic, except that I do not like the idea of disposable "land." Maybe I'm just hopelessly deluded, but I really want to think about these pixels as if they were land--emphatically *not* that I think they should appreciate in value or anything like that, but that I want to feel like what I'm building on this stuff is actually improving something, not just a fun little diversion while I wait for the adfarmers to f*ck it all up and force me to move somewhere else. Again, maybe I'm just stuck with an inappropriate mindset, but really, if we're ceding Mainland to be just toilet paper for adfarmers, I'm done with owning any of it, and quite possibly done with owning anything at all in-world.

In closing, I am going to make a shameless plug for the War, and ask those who really want it to end to join us: http://etakeh-oh.net/adless/

I bought a little parcel of land a little while ago. I think that's what really caused the land prices to plummet. That's what happened the last time I bought land.

Yeah, actually, roads still just barely work at sim-crossings anyway, so a "TP-Trail" makes sense. And I could totally get into a "storyline" for each continent, and be inspired to build something theme-appropriate. (Well, as long as it doesn't involve vampires--a theme which always gives me fits of uncontrollable giggling.)

LOL I guess your memory is failing -- better have that checked out. The comment had nothing to do with land -- it was about some worthless blog post about someone who was banned. Funny how the banned always scream it is unfair. Go do a search, Snowflake, for "mindless twaddle" in the "Resident-Run Websites" forum and see for yourself.

So.... no, my opinion about Linden Labs banning people who deserve it has not changed.

[in response to discussion about using reclaimed land for Linden content on landlocked sims without roads]Yeah, actually, roads still just barely work at sim-crossings anyway, so a "TP-Trail" makes sense. And I could totally get into a "storyline" for each continent, and be inspired to build something theme-appropriate. (Well, as long as it doesn't involve vampires--a theme which always gives me fits of uncontrollable giggling.)

There is one other big thing they did right at Bay City besides publicity: they prevented parcel subdivision, so no really good opportunities for ad/extortion farms. Lots of hideous builds at the moment, with good reason to suspect the frustrated nth-generation flippers are just extorting the neighbors from full-sized parcels, but that may calm down eventually. Or not... and frankly, I kind of hope not... and that it ends up tanking the Bay City property values, just like it does the rest of Mainland. The Lindens have been spared the pain of ad/extortion schemes in their little Village enclave (the few that ever visit their plots there), but if even their Big New Thing is trashed beyond repair, maybe they'll finally freakin' *do* something.

LOL I guess your memory is failing -- better have that checked out. The comment had nothing to do with land -- it was about some worthless blog post about someone who was banned. Funny how the banned always scream it is unfair. Go do a search, Snowflake, for "mindless twaddle" in the "Resident-Run Websites" forum and see for yourself.

So.... no, my opinion about Linden Labs banning people who deserve it has not changed.

Problem is I wasn't banned my friend was, and you acted like a tool when I tried to help him get his very unjust ban reversed...

Oh, you are correct... It was labeled by you as libel or slander or something when someone chooses to express their opinoin on their own 3rd party blog... Karma is a beeyotch, isn't she?

Or put in intermediate banding. If you have 1/2 a sim and just want a tiny bit more, you still have to double your tier - that is harsh.

The way around that is to create another avatar to buy the additional land. But it would be better to have an easier way.