WTF!?!?! Logged out because inventory isn't available??

Well your tone was much more sceptical than mine. I am waiting to see, but have more hope than many of the other virtual world betas I have been involved in, as this one is based on an existing, established game platform. But, I have always said, the proof of the pudding...

As for the comment in your earlier post about Blue Mars charging for the developer accounts, well I have a developer account, and I have not been charged any money. The SDK will be free to all, once it is out of beta.

However, if a developer wants to create a city, using the SDK, and have that uploaded and hosted by Blue Mars, then that will be charged for, but regions are not free in SL either. No pricing information has been released by Blue Mars yet, so I would be interested in your source for this info about developer accounts.

Rock

Linden Lab is not responsible for what people do in RL. You should have taken this to your local police.

IMHO, regardless of my personal opinion, using these fora for propaganda about a rival virtual world, even if it is only a potential rival, is essentially trolling. I am sick and tired of hearing about Blue Mars; the topic holds no interest for me. I come here to discuss Second Life. Yesterday, for the first time ever, I decided to officially "ignore" someone (a certain Badger). So, Rock Vacirca, you only get second place in my ignore list.

Blue Mars:

Can I build? No
Can I script? No
Can I create in any form? No

Ow ok, so BM for me is worthless no matter how fancy it might look and how shamelessly they keep plugging that extremely limited world here on the SL forums.

There is no 'plugging' going on. I am involved in the beta testing of the Blue Mars SDK, (and also in the beta testing recently of Metaplace and Free Realms) and have had several discussions with the folks at Avatar-Reality, so I tend to only comment on Blue Mars when I see false or misleading statements about it in these forums. I also write extensively on SL and Opensim.

First, anyone can build (providing they have the skill). You can use any of the industry standard 3D modelling software suites (both expensive and free).

Second, anyone can script (if you have the skill), again using the industry standard Lua scripting language.

Third, you can create textures and animations (if you have the skill) using the same tools that users of SL use.

The Viewer to see how your creations look and behave is available for free download right now, and the SDK will also be free when it comes out of beta. So why you make the above assertions is beyond me.

In Blue Mars city owners can upload content, so can their tenants, both commercial tenants and residential tenants. The only people who cannot upload are visitors, who have no land or rental of their own.

Do you believe that non-residents should have the right to upload content onto someone else's land? Is that what you do in SL, and you are bemoaning the fact that you will not be allowed to do that in BM?

Rock

Gee. Guess I am not as much entitled to my scepticism than you are to your fanboyish glorification.





I wasn't talking about specific pricing, and my source is their very own site: http://www.bluemarsdev.com/gettingstarted/index.html



So there is basically no way of just doing stuff for fun. From how it is phrased on their site, you are either a developer (and therefore paying for server space) or an end user (not paying, but with no rights to upload stuff).


Oh, and btw, can I just say it sucks that they want a considerable amount of information before even considering letting someone play the creation game?

You seriously don't get it. In SL you do not need to own or rent land to create stuff. There are sandboxes that allow you the very same thing. And not all stuff created is something that needs to be "put" somewhere. Attachments, clothing etc can be done for one's own personal use and fun. If only those could create stuff in SL who own or rent land... it would be a dull place indeed.

I have my own land and pay for that for sure. I learned designing in 3d in SL, I started in a sandbox testing a bit, and yes that was free. And the fact that BM does not allow such thing is a shame. As I said, I started in a sandbox, learned about the basics, moved to my own plot, wanted piece when building, later got a sim and premium membership to support SL who innitially gave me the opportunities for free.

Now for blue mars I must pay first and learn later, given the fact that the tools as quoted from the website, are new tools for me to learn, it is a big turn-off for me to even attempt to go to BM and try create something there, the wall there is simply way way way too high:



The 'easy to use' way of 3d content creating in SL is what attracts me to this world. BM requires you to sign up as developor, it requires you to download and install other aplications to create 3d content, it has no build tools of it's own.

For the average resident that at one point would like to try to build something, those programs scare them off and therefor in my oppinion, most content will be created by proffesionals.

In SL you can become a creator with little knowledge of 3D designing. Resulting in some great resident creations. And honestly, the BEST creations in SL, are not the ones created by industry pro's at all, they simply lack the imagination, fantasy and free thinking.

Was not refering to you about pluging BM here:

QFT.

BM does allow it. They provide you with a free sandbox to create to your heart's content. It is on your PC though, rather than inworld.



You do not need to pay first and learn later. You can download Blender for free. SL promote Photoshop, but it would be disingenuous to suggest that SL is pay first learn later, when equivalent free graphics programs are available, such as Gimp and Paint.Net

Are you able to create textures and animations inworld in SL? Of course not, but that is conveniently ignored when people harp on about being to create inworld in SL.



That is true, the creation tools in SL (for prims only) are easy, but that comes with the price of a rather limited set of tools. Blue Mars does have terrain creation tools built in, while SL does not. Does anyone complain bitterly about the lack of terrain creation tools in SL, and the fact they have to use TerraMaker, L3DT, Terragen or whatever?



Well, I have never used any of those 3D programs before, but I am starting the tutorials, it doesn't scare me off. These programs are not the domain of the professional user either, there are masses of amateur content throughout dozens of other virtual worlds and mmorgs. Just check out the Google 3D warehouse.



That is true, you can get up and running creating prims pretty quickly with the SL tools. However, do you create your own textures? What program do you use, and would you say it is easy and quick to learn? Same question re. animations. Would you say the proprietory LSL scripting language is easy to learn also? After all, plywood prims are not everyone's idea of 'building', it takes textures, scripts, animations etc to bring them to life.

As for what are the 'best' creations in SL, that is a matter of subjective opinion. My sims in SL have been described as 'the best' in several categories, in these forums, and perhaps that is why I got the BM SDK (I am not a company, btw, and I said that on my BM Developer's application form, but I did give them my SL build references). All other developers in BM that I have met so far have all come from SL, and not one is a 'company', but the professionals do not need to hang around our developers' forum, they do their stuff in house.

One of the professional companies making content for BM is VSE, http://www.virtualspaceentertainment.com/ and their team of designers are really top notch, with a whole string of industry awards, and produce the cgi content for many of the big movie blockbusters. If SL amateurs can produce better than them, then perhaps someone ought to drop Mr. Speilberg a line.

Rock

WHERE do they explicitly promote Photoshop, disregarding the free programs? And even if they did, what would keep you from using the free programs?

And how is the texturing problem any different from BM then?

This thread seems strange. At first it looked like the usual rant about being kicked from the grid.
To a debate about the pro's and con's about BM vs. SL.

Regardless of what BM initially intended or visualised their model to be like, I suspect that if they are listening to the user comments and concerns being generated by SL users, they may be scrambling to change or include things that SL users take for granted.

Since SL is the pioneer of the Virtual World of its scale and type, inevitably there will be a great
deal of comparisons to SL due to the similarity of BM in terms of there being no predetermined goals such as in classic game models.

Possibly BM began their vision of their world as being above and beyond SL yet also occupying
a completely separate category among Virtual Worlds. With most of the content creation being developed by corporate developers. While smaller content creators would have to satisfy themselves with renting a shop and selling clothes and nik naks.

But as is true in much of life real or virtual, regardless of the vision, message or concept you intend to send, it inevitably gets garbled, skewed and misunderstood when exposed to the masses. And again during the debate that storms as a result of this limited exposure I certainly would not be surprised if there are last minute (so to speak) changes and inclusions of features and functions that SL users take for granted.

This is a possibility and I may be completely wrong. They may open their beta grid exactly as they have envisioned it all along. And if it is turns out to be similar to the preconception that I got then it would be more like a massive landscape full of connected resort type places.
Which may be enough to siphon off alot of our chat-dance-shoppers that are not as interested in building.

One of the great things about SL is the level of individual freedom. Even though that freedom
is the cause of many of the problems on the grid, griefers, copybots, theft etc.

Although BM looks fantastic the actual experience of it may be more stale over time and much less dynamic if it is over controlled.

In terms of user experience and options they still have quite a few questions to answer like
lions tigers and sex, oh my! haha.

If I remember correctly you cannot move or fly contiguously from one region to another.

Here is an interesting on the other hand question...Assuming that BM does become a draw
for many of SL's current residents. What can SL do to counter?
Or rather what would you like to see SL do to in the form of the next big thing?

Whatever happens it will be interesting to read all the reactions and press releases after the beta opens.

Would you mind sharing some of "your" sims? Would love to take a look but can't seem to find references in your picks.



Well... they gave you the kit, but not a login... *whistles*

One place they explicitly promote Photoshop is in the Knowledgebase for terrain texture creation, and the creating of terrains themselves. SL uses a proprietory *.raw file for terrain, consisting of 13 interleaved channels, and only quote Photoshop in this regard. Neither Gimp nor Paint.net can display the SL *.raw file. It was for this very reason that I created the SimScape terrain creation and 3D graphics tool, as a free replacement for Photoshop.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x27/wibs_photos/screenshot01.jpg

There is no reason for not using alternative free programs! That is precisely the point I was making to another poster who was saying that it would cost money to get the software to create for BM, while ignoring the availability of open-source alternatives, such as Blender, Gimp, etc.

The texturing problem is no different for BM, except that BM has a huge library of textures already built-in, ready for use, and is very much larger than the SL Library.

Rock

I sold all my sims following the VAT debacle. But you can read what people said about them: search for Hoini, Sukka Mire, and Swey in the forums. Other words to search for are: most romantic place in SL, best Arabian Nights build, best Ancient Egyptian build.

The remains of Hoini are still inworld, now renamed to Tien Llung.

It is true I did not get a login (what IS your source of info???), but only a very few did, and then BM stopped it.

Rock

The forum you yourself posted the link to in your promotional crusade, diphead.

I had discussed this at length with others on a closed irc channel, I had forgotten that I had made a brief reference to it on another part of the Life on Mars forum.

Please try to refrain from personal abusive remarks.

Rock

Let's see . . . you state you have a BM account, but can't log on because you really don't have an account; you then lash out at her because you forgot what you wrote; you state that your sims are well received, but you don't have sims any longer. Seems to me her description is apropo to your current mental status.

This thread was getting quite interesting until Novis resorted to a personal insult. A sure sign of losing a debate.

Where exactly in the following did Rock 'lash out'?



He also made it quite clear that he had a developer account (something quite different to the Blue Mars client account).

Rock was one of the most gifted creators in Second Life, and it was a sad day for many of us when he left Second Life. Fortunately, the departure was not permanent as shortly after he left the Opensimulator project got really going, and he joined there, and helped myself and many others with his tutorials and manuals for Opensim. Now that he is beta testing Blue Mars I for one will be following what this guy has to say most carefully. His blog has been a must-read for anyone with an interest in virtual worlds.

So before you go questioning his 'mental state' perhaps you should state your own credentials.

Truth

I do not see anything that signals I am losing this debate.

Well, obviously he hasn't really left-left SL. Else he wouldn't be here, right?

God, I started another thread and hoped this one had died, but then I spotted your name again as the last post, and another exasperating post. Can you please let me know where I have complained about being kicked out?? I left SL, and sold my sims, due to the introduction of VAT. All this was well explained and discussed at length in previous forum posts, and also in my first blog post, back in April 2008, http://rock-vacirca.blogspot.com/2008/04/standalone-sims-next-steps.html

Please, give me the source of this complaint.

Rock

I edited the post for a reason.

I see you have edited out your last comment. I will take that as a fitting close to this debate.

Rock

He has the developer kit. He admits himself he does not have a developer account, he has not logged into BM yet except for the demo. Please get your facts straight.

This makes me laugh.