Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE

Bullying Bunnies threaten Legal Action over Ad

Kitty Barnett
Registered User
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 5,586
08-03-2008 03:53
From: Conifer Dada
I would think that only the agrieved party can take action over a trademark violation. If these bunnies don't represent the owner of the trademark, they can't do anything apart from drawing you to the attention of the TM owner.
Anyone can report a trademark violation to LL and LL will remove the content, it doesn't have to be the trademark owner or someone representing them.

For copyright on the other hand there does need to be a properly filed DMCA by the copyright owner (or someone acting on their behalf) to take any action.

(Found the quote again)
From: someone
Trademarks in-world are handled a bit differently than copyright, largely due to trademarks not falling under the provisions of the DMCA. In regards to copyright, Linden Lab follows a standard DMCA procedure by which we'll disable any content identified by the copyright holder or their agent as infringing. The Second Life Resident responsible for that content can file a counterclaim, but any final resolution is handled by the parties themselves, outside of Second Life.

Trademark is not included in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, and thus we're obliged to removed unauthorized trademarks from Second Life whenever they are found. In practice, this is exactly what we do. However, as Second Life is a user-created and driven space, we approach this task from the same 'bottom-up' perspective that drives much of our in-world governance. The in-world Linden Lab are skilled facilitators and problem solvers; they aren't trademark experts. Indeed, given the global nature of Second Life, it's invertible that their ability to identify trademarks will be imperfect. While their work includes removing identified trademarks, they are not tasked with seeking out offending material and generally refrain from acting presumptively. Instead, we rely on the community itself, with its much broader knowledge and reach, to inform us of content that violates our policy.
Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
08-03-2008 04:26
From: Amity Slade
Depending upon how your ad is written, you could have Trademark trouble. One of the key issues is whether you use the words "Playboy" and "Playgirl" in a way that may cause confusion with the Trademarked names. But that's an issue of fact that cannot be determined without looking at the ad.

By the way, if there is a dress code for women in Second Life before they can be taken seriously, is there also a dress code for men before they could be taken seriously?


Men should NEVER be taken seriously in Second Life!

Pep (Especially the ones who dress up as Bunnies[TM] )
_____________________
Hypocrite lecteur, — mon semblable, — mon frère!
Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
08-03-2008 04:36
From: Mickey Vandeverre
I already changed the wording to the way they "wanted" me to word it. But how do I know they are legit? Anyone can be whatever they want to be, here. I can land on someone's store right now...and do the exact same thing.

The wording of the ad was "Playboy Mansion"....like Bachelor Pad....describing a particular type of person's home.....I did not say THE Playboy Mansion which would describe an entertainment facility. They "whomever they might be" told me it was ok to say Mansion for Playboys.


IANAFL (I always wanted to write that) but I think it sounds like they acted entirely reasonably. If you had used a lower case p in "Playboy" [tm] you might have got away with it (I know that most males don't use upper case in sl, whether because of slovenliness or only using one hand to type, but . . .) since they are less likely to be able (although it wouldn't stop them trying) to enforce anything with respect to words used in the way that they are intended, even in cliched phrases.

Pep (It ain't Champagne unless it comes from Champagne)
_____________________
Hypocrite lecteur, — mon semblable, — mon frère!
Cheree Bury
ChereeMotion Owner
Join date: 6 Jun 2007
Posts: 666
08-03-2008 04:50
Regardless of whether these avatars are legitimate representatives of the company they purport to represent, you need to ask yourself if you want to risk legal action by a large corporation with deep pockets. Even if they were not "legit," what is to say that the company's attorneys are not watching. I would not risk that for the small number of dollars I take out of SL each month.

It is my understanding that companies not only have a right to enforce their trademarks, they ahave an obligation to do so or they can lose their trademarks.

My SL business is primarily the sale of pinup style poses I make for photographers. I occasionally make pinup poses from famous photographs. I do not however use those photographs, or the famous person's name in my advertising. Why would I risk that for a pose that I sell for 50 Lindens?

I come to SL to have fun, not worry about someone suing me. Come on, let's go have some fun.
FD Spark
Prim & Texture Doodler
Join date: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4,697
08-03-2008 05:50
Anyone own the copyright or Trademark on word Swinger or Adventurous?
_____________________
Look for my alt Dagon Xanith on Youtube.com

Newest video is

Loneliness by Duo Zikr DX's Alts & SL Art Death of Avatar
Brann Georgia
Spits infinitives
Join date: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 1,441
08-03-2008 06:16
Cheree's got a point.
Even if these bunnies were nonsense, the situation seems questionable.
There is a difference between using the word 'playboy' and using "Playboy Mansion", which is unquestionably profiting from THE Playboy. After all, why bother with "playboy" anyway? As a non-corporate icon, the word itself is as quaintly outdated as Austin Powers.

You could wait for an official 'cease and desist' email, though. I doubt very much that Playboy's RL lawyers would walk about dressed like bunnies, so why do it in SL? Even a Playboy t-shirt would have a bit more credibility than that.
_____________________
*
*
Cortex Draper
Registered User
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 406
08-03-2008 06:26
From: Mickey Vandeverre
But how do I know they are legit? Anyone can be whatever they want to be, here. I can land on someone's store right now...and do the exact same thing.

Its easy to know if they are legit.

Playboy owns its own island in SL.
Check their groups to see if they are staff members of that island.

As for whether they should dress up in bunny suits while doing business. Well I think that should be mandatory :)
Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
08-03-2008 06:54
Thanks for all the great feedback. No....I'm not going to fight the terminology......but the question is......did a RL attorney threaten me?

From: RemacuTetigisti Quandry
If they're not legit, LL would then be duly informed that a new form of Griefing is being perpetrated on residents.

--Rema


They landed right in front of me....on m own property....and issued demands. "You violate...." "You may call it....." She only said she was an attorney as a response to me telling her that I would "look into it....and ask my attorney" I told her to "put it in writing" 3 times...... I asked them to leave 3 times. I finally said "am I going to have to eject you?" and they left.

They are not my competition.....I don't compete here....I compete in RL.....I come here, to have fun, and for a relief from that.....but what if someone who "thinks" they are a business competitor of yours....that hates your guts......decides they want to mess with you......and starts sending avs claiming to be attorneys over, issuing demands. That's a Problem! As well as being Ridiculous.

From: Ricardo Harris
This is just another example of the egotistical maniacs of sl who run rampant in they're warped thinking.


Bless their souls..


..said the devil.



From: Argos Hawks
Anyone claiming to be a lawyer and acting as such on behalf of a client should have no problem giving you all the real world information that would normally be on their business card. Then you'd be able to verify with their states bar association and have your lawyer send them a letter to their RL office.


I am trying to get their information. I'm not going to spend any money on this.....but I would like to know if theiy are a true legal representative of the company......and I want to know if the bar associations allow that kind of representation, anonymously in virtual life.

It's one thing to threaten to report you to LL....that's fine.....but when she announced she was an attorney .....that's RL.

Suezanne....I had trouble getting to that link....but I understand the terminology problem. It's corrected.

OK - there is a sim that says it is the "Official" Playboy sim......how do I know that? Just by labeling yourself as "Official" here........????
Cortex Draper
Registered User
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 406
08-03-2008 07:07
From: Mickey Vandeverre
OK - there is a sim that says it is the "Official" Playboy sim......how do I know that? Just by labeling yourself as "Official" here........????

Their official sim is called "Playboy".

You know its official as their legal team would have destroyed anyone else naming a sim that, and the lindens wouldn't have allowed anyone else naming it that in the first place due to breach of trademarks.
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
08-03-2008 07:20
I find it hard to believe the similarity of the name was not intentional.

Not for anyone who wasn't born before the 1950's

So after profiting from the popularity of the name Playboy, you don't want the negative opinions of those who don't like you profiting from the name association.

If they are abuse file an AR

Otherwise,

Too bad.
Mjolnir Uriza
Hammer of the Gods
Join date: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 504
08-03-2008 07:42
when are you people going to get it duuuuhhh......

this is SL off beat avis are the norm not the exeption!!!!!

remeber the bank feasco all those guys wore suits
Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
08-03-2008 07:44
From: Cortex Draper
Their official sim is called "Playboy".

You know its official as their legal team would have destroyed anyone else naming a sim that, and the lindens wouldn't have allowed anyone else naming it that in the first place due to breach of trademarks.


I was being Facetious....to make a point.....do you believe everything you see here.

From: Colette Meiji
I find it hard to believe the similarity of the name was not intentional.

Not for anyone who wasn't born before the 1950's

So after profiting from the popularity of the name Playboy, you don't want the negative opinions of those who don't like you profiting from the name association.

If they are abuse file an AR

Otherwise,

Too bad.


It was not intentional at all. I alternate descriptions of the homes......sometimes it is a Luxury Beach Home....if it's smaller......if it's Huge.....I call it a Luxury Mansion......(if it's tame inside).

If I tap it out with "equipment"....it becomes a Swinging Bachelor or Bachelorette Pad....or a Playboy Paradise.....or Playboy or Playgirl Beach Home......and if it's Huge....it's a Playboy Mansion. I actually got the idea from reading the profiles of the people who stopped by to view it.....and don't you know....most of them described themselves as Playboys or Playgirls. I can't help it if Playboy is the best way to describe the personality....and Mansion is the best way to describe it's size.

Not a sin to figure out who your target is.....and capitalize on it with the proper keywords....my target was a personality type.......definitely not a bunch of men coming over expecting bunnies to entertain them....in fact.....I stopped by their island.....and I doubt any of those guys there are going to be buying one of these.

I Capitalize a ton of words.....by the way. The Capitalization of it doesn't mean anything....just my writing style.

My ad said...."Playboy Mansion For Sale!" They said "people come here believing they will see The Playboy Mansion..rahter than a beachhouse for sale..ya know" .......(those are not my spelling errors)......and that's complete BULL. The entire ad is all about a beach home for sale....and not an entertainment venue related to their company.

I'll get out my Thesaurus.....and see if I can't find a more descriptive word for playboy and mansion.....but those sure are the right words.......
Phoenixa Sol
Dance Addict
Join date: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 315
08-03-2008 07:57
7337!!!

:P


PL4YM4T3, PL4Y6IRL, PL4YB0Y

and a personal aside, here's what I dont get. By using such words, you get those in the know thinking about the original product.

Wow, free advertising.

(Why isn't this apparent to the anal companies who get their knickers in a twist about this stuff?)

When I read your first few lines in the OP, I thought back to reading all the hilarious jokes, cartoons and little Annie Fanny so many years ago. Obviously as I continued through the rest of the post, reading about the obnoxious behavior made me decide NOT to run out and buy the latest issue or possibly a subscription... as a cool gag gift for my brother.

Soooooo... they cost Hughie baby and co some biz by acting like low class bottom feeders.

hassenpfeffer.... ftw
_____________________
Dance, dance, dance, dance and film it!
"How I dance in secondlife" dance tutorial video, SLurls, handy links and text explanations:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Phoenixa_Sol

Take your dance to new heights!



Free FlyDance animation just for stopping by. Buy from box vendor for $0L!

http://tinyurl.com/5paevr
Zaphod Kotobide
zOMGWTFPME!
Join date: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 2,087
08-03-2008 08:09
These people weren't lawyers. They were either idiots or griefers. Even if they did represent the Playboy interests in Second Life in some way (which I doubt), Cease and Desist demands are not issued anonymously, and are worth less than the paper they're printed on if the issuer isn't verifiable as either the person whose property is being infringed, or an authorized representative of that person or entity. A couple of bunny avatars with untraceable SL names is about anonymous as it gets.

Corporate lawyers don't prance around the grid making empty threats, claiming to be "a lawyer in 5 states". In the case of Playboy Enterprises, it's an army of law firms, practicing all over the world.

I agree with the others though - you are better off steering clear of playing with those words.
_____________________
From: Albert Einstein
Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them.
Lostmedia Ares
Drinking tea
Join date: 6 Sep 2006
Posts: 290
08-03-2008 08:11
Tell em to " Hop off " :)
_____________________
Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
Jojogirl Bailey
jojo's Folly owner
Join date: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,094
08-03-2008 08:54
Unless the Playboy company contacts you in hard copy writing, i really would not worry about it. I know of a case now in RL that is wayyyy more infringing than this and the time, cost and effort to go after someone really needs to be worth it for the RL company. If they are serious you will know.

Otherwise, this is just a case of some sl folk running around harrassing others with no leg to stand on.

Trust me, if "Playboy" is upset about using their name...you will know it, you wont even have a doubt and the info wont be delivered in world by a couple of smart ass bunnies.
_____________________
Director of Marketing - Etopia Island Corporation
Marketing and Business Consultant
Jojo's Folly - Owner
Chav Paderborn
in ur sl
Join date: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 192
08-03-2008 09:01
From: Mickey Vandeverre
2 cute little bunny girls pop onto your land....and after the "Hello"....tell you that you have to change the wording of your ad because you are violating licensing for a trademark.....and one of the little bunny girls is an attorney licensed in 5 states. I'm sorry....but I had to tell her that it is difficult for me to believe, the way she is dressed, standing in Fantasyland.


I just want to quote this to draw attention to Playboy's treatment of their female employees.
_____________________
Annabelle Babii
Unholier than thou
Join date: 2 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,797
08-03-2008 09:06
/me runs off to make an undead PB Bunny avie
_____________________
Deep inside we're all the same - we're an amorphous fog clouod.
Morgan Flannery
Registered User
Join date: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 59
08-03-2008 09:23
Mickey, as much of a defense as you've attempted for your ad & naming practices, the fact remains that any American reading an ad for a "Playboy Mansion" is instantly going to assume that it's for THE Playboy Mansion. It's just hard-wired into our naughty little brains to make that connection.

Now, if you said in your ad that it's a mansion "suited to the lifestyles of swingers and playboys," that's a whole 'nother ballgame. That also matches what you claim that your visitors label themselves as. To my mind, that would be the safer road.

As for the bunnies ... myself, I can't see a company with the clout and resources of Playboy Enterprises sending a couple of anonymous avatars to do their dirty work. Even dropping a simple notecard on you with verifiable RL contact information would be more professional than what you state occured. But then, we've only got your version of events to go by here (nothing personal).
SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
08-03-2008 09:27
From: Chav Paderborn
I just want to quote this to draw attention to Playboy's treatment of their female employees.
No reason to think they are all actually females, is there? ;)
_____________________
-

So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

-

http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
Robin, and Ryan

-
Chris Norse
Loud Arrogant Redneck
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,735
08-03-2008 09:37
From: Chav Paderborn
I just want to quote this to draw attention to Playboy's treatment of their female employees.


Because they are held at gunpoint in the mansion.
_____________________
I'm going to pick a fight
William Wallace, Braveheart

“Rules are mostly made to be broken and are too often for the lazy to hide behind”
Douglas MacArthur

FULL
Chav Paderborn
in ur sl
Join date: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 192
08-03-2008 09:41
From: SuezanneC Baskerville
No reason to think they are all actually females, is there? ;)


True, but I think my point stands :)


From: Chris Norse
Because they are held at gunpoint in the mansion.


You're right, there's no such thing as economic coercion. There is also no such thing as showing blatant disrespect by sending your lawyers in dressed as rabbits because they happen to be female.

Why are men so into bestiality anyway?
_____________________
Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
08-03-2008 09:47
From: Morgan Flannery
Mickey, as much of a defense as you've attempted for your ad & naming practices, the fact remains that any American reading an ad for a "Playboy Mansion" is instantly going to assume that it's for THE Playboy Mansion. It's just hard-wired into our naughty little brains to make that connection.

Now, if you said in your ad that it's a mansion "suited to the lifestyles of swingers and playboys," that's a whole 'nother ballgame. That also matches what you claim that your visitors label themselves as. To my mind, that would be the safer road. QUOTE]

I understand....I'm going to play with the wording....it's just that you have to use as few words as possible in those ads. I could lose the word playboy entirely....probably won't make a difference.

I sent an email to their copyright department. I also contacted the sim owner.

Their Trademarks include the word Playboy....but they also include Bunny Costume, Centerfold, and Spice.
Now tell me how they are going to monitor the word Spice. And are any of you advertising Bunny Costumes for sale?

The purpose of the email is to report someone who is implying that they are a legal representative for the corporation....using an anonymous avatar....and not producing real life information, as I requested.

I acknowledged the use of the word Playboy....and they are welcome to go into further detail on how it can be used.

But I want them to be aware of a bunny girl representing herself as their legal representative....in fantasy land. To me....her representation and presentation (or misrepresentation) was more of an infringement upon their company....and much more of a threat.....then me describing promiscuous bachelors with a suitable word.

Will be interesting to see if they take it seriously, and if I get a response.
Chris Norse
Loud Arrogant Redneck
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,735
08-03-2008 09:48
From: Chav Paderborn
True, but I think my point stands :)




You're right, there's no such thing as economic coercion. There is also no such thing as showing blatant disrespect by sending your lawyers in dressed as rabbits because they happen to be female.

Why are men so into bestiality anyway?


Was any proof offered that these two idiots actually worked for Playboy? No? Then I guess you need to retract that statement.

Economic coercion, oh you mean they are indebted to Hefner and are working as indentured servants to pay of the debts? No?

Ok, then they make a decision to earn more money than they would by working at the local Wal Mart in a manner in which YOU do not approve. Ok, I understand now.

I am not into beastiality. So you have another blanket statement that is wrong.
_____________________
I'm going to pick a fight
William Wallace, Braveheart

“Rules are mostly made to be broken and are too often for the lazy to hide behind”
Douglas MacArthur

FULL
Chav Paderborn
in ur sl
Join date: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 192
08-03-2008 09:52
From: Chris Norse
Was any proof offered that these two idiots actually worked for Playboy? No? Then I guess you need to retract that statement.


We'd have to retract the whole thread then. This thread is based on the assumption that they were.


From: someone
Economic coercion, oh you mean they are indebted to Hefner and are working as indentured servants to pay of the debts? No?

Ok, then they make a decision to earn more money than they would by working at the local Wal Mart in a manner in which YOU do not approve. Ok, I understand now.


You only approve cos you're sexist. You know full well what I meant. Dressing in a Walmart uniform isn't continuing the societal idea of women as sex objects for men to lust after and use as they see fit.


From: someone
I am not into beastiality. So you have another blanket statement that is wrong.


Do you have any proof that you're a man? You could just be a self-hating woman.
_____________________
1 2 3 4 5