How to keep underagers out of my club?

I opened up my club to nonmembers today in celebration of my 2nd rez day. Normally, there is a one-time fee for unlimited use and membership. But I opened it up to anyone and then saw that there is an option in my land to require age-verification for entry. I thought that might be a good idea, since lots of "mature" "coupling" "goes on" at the club and so I checked it. Within 20 minutes a person shows up screaming at me that I am scamming to get people's passwords.

How? I didn't make up the age verification thing. Should I just uncheck it and hope teens don't sneak in? What the heck was he talking about?

ban said person and tell them to take their crazyness to Sims online.

Using age verification won't stop teens getting in your club as age verification is hopelessly flawed and if you think it protects you then you really need to think again.

However as the person above suggests, ban the person objecting. I personally wouldn't trust age verification as far as I can throw it, it's an absolutely rubbish system.

I believe that simply including your payment info is a better way of showing that you are of age. Yes it is possible to get around, but age verification is WAY OTT!

The simple way of doing it is saying that immaturity is not tolerated. Anyone who is immature is out. Most kids are immature
That's how I usually do it.

Uncheck the age verification. all you're doing is hurting your business. It's flawed, many people who are of age have refused to verify, and some of the "verified" people are probably kids.

Since the TOS states you must be 18 to use the service, you have a reasonable right to assume all people using the service are at least 18. There should be no legal liability on your part.

Think of it like buying someone a drink at the bar (in the US where the drinking age is 21).
You needn't card the person you buy the drink for as you have a reasonable expectation that their ID was checked at the door.

As a general rule ...

You should at least talk to potential sex partners enough to figure out what DECADE they grew up in.

IF its this last one ... don't have cyber sex with them.

I wouldn't bank on that as a defense should it later become known that person you bought that drink for was underaged. The argument will be made that YOU are responsible......the underager is too YOUNG to be responsible. And it's a toss up whether that argument will prevail.......I wouldn't want to chance it, myself.

I would keep the age verification box checked if I were concerned. The reason being is that it is required that you be of age to even be on the adult grid......that's one "law" the underager has to break to be there. And if the underager lied to verify as an adult, then that's a second lie. The more "laws" the underager breaks to get in the better your "reasonable assumption" argument would be. We all need as much "protection" as possible these days. Flawed or not flawed, age verification is better than saying "it doesn't guarantee anything so I'm not going to use it".

wouldn't using age verification at least keep him in a safe area of showing he is not letting in people under aged in the lindens eyes??I mean if there was ever a situation where a parent caught their child in his club at least he had the age verification on..wouldn't that show he did everything he could within the bounds of sl?

I would think not having it on and a parent catches their child in there doing something adult then makes an AR he could get into trouble? or no?

Also, many "regular" bars and pubs, not trendy clubs where you stand online to get in, won't card at the door. The bartender will do that at the time of purchase So if you being of age buy 2 beers and give one to an underage person, I imagine you will bear some responsibility.

Considering that the TOS says you must be 18 to be here in the first place I'd say no.

But, if there is another "safeguard" available (such as the age verification option) and the owner of the club failed to use it, that would be a valid point to use against the owner should it come to that later in a US court of law. As flawed as the system might be, it is an attempt to restrict underaged avatars from coming into an adult orientated place of business. If you do not use the tools available to you, you will be held to some form of responsibility. It could successfully be argued that you were negligent because you did not do everything in your power to prevent that child from accessing adult content. The argument you have made repeatedly that the system is so heavily flawed and (in your opinion) is next to useless will be shot down quickly in a US legal system. If it's there, you better use it.........or you could find yourself in big trouble should push come to shove.

It isn't a safeguard - if it came down to it, one could quite easily pull up all sorts of information showing that it has no effect in practice, and in fact just ends up preventing a lot of people over 18 accessing a parcel, whilst not preventing anyone under who wishes to from doing so.

What a crock. How the hell will it prevent a legitimate adult from accessing a parcel while, at the same time, permitting an underager to access that same parcel. If you verify then it allows access, if not it denies access (not yet since the process is intirely voluntary at the moment.....but when it becomes mandatory). If you are of legal age and you are denied access due age verification, then simply verify. Just because you may not like the verification process and refuse to verify because of that does mean the system will deny you access....it means you are refusing to use the process and that is what is denying you access. Even, as you are implying, the children know that much.

I hate to point this out but _it doesn't work_. It bans adults submitting real information, it allows access via randomly-made-up details.

"If you are of legal age and you are denied access due age verification, then simply verify" - what does this mean? If you can't verify, then simply verify? How does that make sense?

Yup. so that's Rocky's choice. His little club in SL would not be sue-able in a US court (you really think that'll happen?) ...

aaand ... he has no customers like me. See, even tho my teenage years no longer really rez for me, I think age verification is a "crock".

*shrugs* Best luck with the club, Rocky!
.

You think some parent is going to sue a owner of a virtual on line game club, admitting that they let their underage son have pixel sex without their knowledge?

If this ever happens it's likely to be a set up by a news organisation, trying to get a cheap thrill story.

And, you know, if the club owner gave them a bigger thrill - "LL's age verification is rubbish! Look at posts X, Y and Z proving it!" - they would much rather run with that.

So true!

I doubt it is any defence whatsoever. In a bar in the UK for example, bar staff will get in trouble if they serve a minor and have no redress whatsoever if the bouncer let's them in.

You'd have a point if age verification was actually any good, but it's quite clearly not and any legal eagle will point out the huge gaping holes in the process on day one of any court hearing. It simply cannot do what it says on the tin.

Everyone knows any age verification system can be defeated or scammed. Fake ID's have been around forever and pretty easily obtained for the determined. And because the system is "flawed" (meaning it can be defeated fairly easily), you are saying don't use it. Not a wise decision if you want to stay out of legal trouble when age is important for admission to adult content. Like I said eariler...........it's a tool available. It's an honest attempt to comply with a law or rule. If you don't use it then you are on your own without any defense at all.

That bouncer didn't check ID's because fake ID's are so easy to come by. The bar tender didn't check ID's because fake ID's are so easy to come by. And a minor is found in the bar drinking. The club says: "It's not my fault. The sign on the door says you must be 21 to enter. And it's a clearly known law in the US that you must be 21 to purchase and consume alcoholic beverages. It's the minor's fault."

Think that will stand up in court?

I am afraid you are incorrect. There's something wrong with the age verification system. I'm not talking about the positives versus the negatives of having some kind of age verification system - I'll leave others to debate that - I'm talking about the system itself as a SL feature. Despite being a premium member and fully "officially" age verified since almost the very beginning of my being on SL, I've never been able to access a parcel restricted to age-verified residents. I couldn't do it back when I first filled out the information. I couldn't do it as recently as a couple of weeks ago when, after renting a house, the landlord and I were playing with the parcel access controls. I set the land, as an experiment, to "age-verified residents only", and was subsequently kicked from my own house. I don't think I'm the only one on SL with this problem, either.

While I recognize that it's true the TOS ought to provide enough protection on the legal end, I also get it that some folks' concerns may not be rested just because the "legal" bases are covered. Kind of like how in states with mandatory auto-insurance laws, some people still choose to purchase additional options above and beyond the simple liability coverage the state requires. That's fine - but people should also know that the age-verification system in SL is kind of broken, and they might be keeping out residents who DO choose to comply with age verification.

What makes you think that you must do everything in your power to avoid being accused of negligence, as opposed to merely taking reasonable precautions?

We don't see bars trying to verify every license with the motor vehicle bureau. Supermarkets don't put beer and wine into locked cases to prevent shoplifting by underage people. They do that with cigarettes because they're explicitly required to.

A better argument would be that Linden's rules require it. A counter-argument is that they have yet to enforce it.

So, just out of curiosity, how many of us have actually verified? I haven't, and I won't. LL has my credit card info, which is enough for me.

I havent and wont. I have owned 2 islands, in the past, and they have my CC info. If someone is so paranoid they lock land to age verification. I would rather not go there anyway. I have often said, the underagers will be verified.

That's a Negatory for me as well.