Do PIOFs and NPIOFs get a free ride?
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Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
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11-10-2009 06:21
From: Dagmar Heideman From: Valerion Raymaker I resent having to give my personal information to everyone that asks for it, so this took a lot of convincing. How is putting payment information on file giving personal information to everyone asking for it? You should be able to understand someone being reluctant to give out personal information for a new service, just as Valerion should be able to understand that it's a reasonable request in many cases. He didn't say or imply that it's an unreasonable request, he simply said that if he had been required to in the first place, he wouldn't have joined. That's perfectly legitimate, and doesn't contradict the rest of your post, which made perfect sense. In any case, I'd rather not continue discuss accountability here, since there's a better thread for that where it's the subject of the thread:  . |
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Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
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The subject here is NOT accountability
11-10-2009 06:34
As they said to Pres. Bush the first, "It's the economy, stupid!"  There's another thread for accountability and violating content rights: Just one of many, I'm sure, but it's the current one. |
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Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
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11-10-2009 06:37
From: Qie Niangao Well, one observation is that if our account only draws freeber accounts, and those freeber accounts only draw other freeber accounts, etc.--that the transitive closure of attraction generated by this account is all freeber--it generates zero indirect contribution to the SL economy. Right, but it's very low probability, as I'm sure you realize. I'm willing to grant that a substantial majority of freebers don't make a significant contribution to SL in terms of attracting payers or their money. However, I do believe that there's a significant minority of "strange attractor" types, who make enormous contributions, but who wouldn't be here if we required payment. Yes, just conjecture on my part, but that's how life tends to be. From: Ann Otoole Oh great another thread started over this. Now I really suspect LL is starting this BS. So, you think I'm a Linden? Or sponsored by one? Ann, while I sometimes disagree with your conclusions, I respect your reasons. But you've totally lost me here! From: Kyrah Abattoir From: Lear Cale Blah blah blah... The only thing they recognise is that by making the entry level for sl as LOW as possible, they increase their odds that in those many freeloaders, some decide to drop some money at Linden Labs. Unfortunately it also brings some layers of the population most of us where living perfectly fine without. Is that really what I sound like? Ah well, you were warned (points up and to the left, to his forum byline). Anyway, I think you're right, with an added wrinkle, as I may have mentioned above: they want to grow the world as fast as possible, figuring out how to milk it later (like Google). From: Jig Chippewa It's the wall for you. Quickly behind the barn. Line you up. Turn you off. When you're done with Pep, will you line me up on the wall behind the barn? But, um ... leave Scylla's AK47 behind please! From: someone But I am not in favour of freeloaders or panhandlers. Bunch a'Halloweeners. I hope you'll make an exception in my case! From: Scylla The rifle doesn't have BULLETS! It's a fashion statement, silly!
Oh! (he says, with evident relief). |
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
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11-10-2009 06:37
From: Scylla Rhiadra Oh don't be so dramatic! The rifle doesn't have BULLETS!
It's a fashion statement, silly!
(Duhhhh!) Are you SURE you don't want to borrow an Uzi? |
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Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
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11-10-2009 06:39
From: Milla Janick Are you SURE you don't want to borrow an Uzi? /me blows a kiss to the Empress of the Universe . . . Pep ( . . . safe in her padded cell.)
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Ceka Cianci
SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4,489
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11-10-2009 06:57
From: Valerion Raymaker For the record, I am a Premium member, so my information is on file with LL. However, this was MY CHOICE. Had I been forced to do it, it would not have been there, because I would not have been here.
Can you please point out where I am advocating violating the ToS? I never said I am in favour of lying to LL, just that I think that providing personal information to LL is not required. My name itself is not private, nor is my email address (I have several anyway). However, beyond that I refuse to be forced to provide anything, unless I choose to share it.
I am certain that you want more than "Avatar X is controlled by John Smith", since that alone is insufficient to find a person amongst 6+ billion. I wasn't saying you were lying or that you broke the TOS.. you are allowed your anonymity from all other users.. Basically it sounded to me that you felt you had a right to hide your private information from LL and enter the grid..i thought you were using an example is all..my misunderstanding.. I know you are premium..i had seen you say it before.. |
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Valerion Raymaker
Registered User
Join date: 7 Mar 2007
Posts: 60
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11-10-2009 07:12
From: Ceka Cianci I wasn't saying you were lying or that you broke the TOS.. you are allowed your anonymity from all other users.. Basically it sounded to me that you felt you had a right to hide your private information from LL and enter the grid..i thought you were using an example is all..my misunderstanding.. I know you are premium..i had seen you say it before.. I don't like giving information that can identify me personally. Too often had I been burned by this. Buy something from someone once, then get spammed by their catalogue for the rest of your life. I have had misspellings on my information presented to companies by accident, only to receive postal offers with the exact same misspelling from a completely unrelated firm. Web cookies track which websites I visit, so they can customize the spam and advertising to me personally. Privacy is something that's hard to find on the net, and I will fight for it. Pity so few people realize how important it is. With that I will stop posting here, seems some of the people I am trying to reason with have already made up their minds not to listen to me, and the others will either be convinced, or not. I can't offer any more arguments than I have already. |
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
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11-10-2009 11:56
From: Amity Slade Good point to remind us that businesses use cash transactions all the time, they are anonymous, and that's just a normal course of business.
There is one important difference, however. If McDonalds were getting stuck with a lot of counterfeit bills, and its customers were routinely getting those fake bills in change before detected, McDonalds would have to enact some sort of greater security to protect itself and its customers. But there is no crime of anonymity routinely affecting McDonalds and its customers that would require it track identity. In Second Life, IP theft is routine, and it's the Second Life customers- as in the content creators- who are the victims.
I won't say that requiring identifying information is just trivial. It is intrusive. But the question is whether it is nonetheless a security measure that is warranted, given the real theft that actually happens thoughout Second Life, and that attempting to have identifying information on all customers may reduce that theft significantly and provide recourse for merchants when it does happen. I don't think it's a decision made by analogy to an entirely different industry; it has to be made on the specific costs and benefits unique to Second Life. Also unverifieds are great for organised crime to use for money laundering bots, just program a hundred or so in half a dozen major cities to sell stuff back and forth, then pay some landlords rent and it's all neatly hidden and a great boom for LL's balance sheets, a few million goes in and then comes back out nice & clean.
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Limonella Sorbet
Registered User
Join date: 31 May 2008
Posts: 219
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11-10-2009 21:54
No, they are not getting a 'free ride.' Time is money too. Reading the "Are you comfortable with your av" thread it strikes me how much Second Life's social fabric would miss if people would be unable to have those outlets in the same feeling of total privacy. What is with the move to banish NPIOF from the grid? Strikes me as a bunch of prigs who aren't satisfied until they can control everyone else. I'm not much for mincing words. As usual the prigs use fear tactics and language, based on very little except their own need to control. From: Tegg Bode Also unverifieds are great for organised crime to use for money laundering bots, just program a hundred or so in half a dozen major cities to sell stuff back and forth, then pay some landlords rent and it's all neatly hidden and a great boom for LL's balance sheets, a few million goes in and then comes back out nice & clean. LL jumps on that like a duck on a june bug. Stop the fear mongering. From: Ceka Cianci I wasn't saying you were lying or that you broke the TOS..
you are allowed your anonymity from all other users.. He's allowed it? Why do other users want to decide what's allowed? From: someone Basically it sounded to me that you felt you had a right to hide your private information from LL and enter the grid.. Why doesn't he? There is no requirement to provide PIOF to register and if there were it would dissuade many people from joining at all. |
