Peak amount of land = total amount of land

Good Day,

In July I invested all my savings in a project I had. I Sold the 1024, 512 & 256 sqm I pwned, and bought this 1/4 sim on mainland that cost me almost 1000$ USD. I had two months of tier fees backed up (2x75$)in case my project takes time to start. (renting on it)

two weeks after the purshase, I am billed 125$ (1/2 sim fees) and left with 25$.
I wrote a ticket of course, that wasn't replyed to.

Since the new billing date is very soon, I got nervous and wrote another ticket.. about my important ticket not being answered, and finally received a reply. The ticket was closed on a note that just doesn't make sense to me. I reopened it.

what I am told, is that it doesn't matter that I sold the land I had prior to purshase the 1/4 sim, for the peak amount of land held within the billing period isn't the peak amount of land, but rather the total amount of land owned. the lands tier fees would add up..

"...I see that the billing date for your tier is around the 5th of each month. If you have owned and sold those parcels in mid-July and also purchased new land before the bill date, the tier of the new land would have been added to the tier for the rest of the land you owned during that billing cycle..."

"...*Those parcels were sold*right before you bought new land. The tier for the new land is $75. But if you owned all of the parcels during the same billing period, you would indeed be charged for both. It is the total amount of land owned in the billing cycle, not just at any one period of time. Let me know if you have any other questions..."

"...even though you had no more than 16896 at any one point in time, your peak during the billing cycle might have been more..."

Here is what I had understood of the peak land rule.

Exemple:

first week I buy a 1024, and sell it.
second week I buy a 4096 and sell it.
tird week I buy a 1024 and sell it
forth week I buy a 512 and seel it.


what I thought, is that I would be charged for the peak land held within the the period no matter if I hold it for just a second, in this exemple being the tier fee for a 4096.

I am told that the peek is the total amount of land hold, wich is 1024 + 4096 + 1024 + 512..

This just seems very wrong to me. How to bankrupt projects before they even get started.

Honestly, this billing issue truely killed the magic. I've been ready to rent on the land for 2 weeks, but since I wasn't even receiving replies (though little issues were and right away), I can't rent and engage myself with tenant if not able to cover the tier fees... so everyday they that they leave me with no answer, I'm loosing my money... 2 weeks wasted.. for wich I will still be charged a tier fee..

Again How to bankrupt projects before they even get started...

I had worked so hard every day after I purshased the land.. terraforming, building, landscaping.. so much work all by myself.. probably for nothing

I was supposed to receive updates today, I still have no reply.
The day isn't over yet of course, but it's been so long that I'm afraid the ticket will be put asside again and that I'll have to sell the land before my billing date ..

This is costing me too much and keep costing me everyday that it stay unsolved..

Of course I'm not having any fun in SL anymore.. I stay off world. I also now that I will be loosing even more money if selling the land since the prices dropped unbelievably on the land market..

I always assumed peak land use meant the amount you held at one time. I didn't realise it worked that way.

Hmm. My own experience wouldn't seem to corroborate what they were saying either. It's always seemed to me that I was only ever billed for peak usage. I don't see how our land barons could stay in business if they had to pay tier based on total land owned.

Can some barons step in to clarify?

And you are right in this assumption. Peak means peak as in high peak, not total sum of land holdings. If it was interpreted this way, the one telling you this was telling crap.

The only thing that might have happened is if your land was/is group-owned because in most cases group land transfers can take up to 24 hours to "clear" completely, so if you had selling and buying overlap, this is maybe where the different peak is coming from.

And you can always check the tier fee you currently owe at the site, "my account" and then "land use fees".

I would file another support ticket and keep my fingers crossed that a different employee will open it.

when i was in the land business I had a group
i donated tier to the group
i could move parcels in and out of the group all month long as long as i didn't exceed the tier i donated to the group at any given moment in time.
i never tried owning parcels personally. i didn't realize the rules were different. good luck i hope you get an answer to your question from some of the residents in this forum.

Do you have any tier contributed to a group? If you bought the 1/4 sim in personal holdings but have tier contributed to a group, it would push you over. Billing is not for total land owning, it's for peak simultaneous holdings. Unless LL changed that to stop auction flippers, they did it without telling anyone and there are going to be a few pissed people after auctions!

Check your account pages and make sure that your tier level is down to 1/4 sim.

Thank you for those reply,

to precise the situation, the land is "now" group owned, but that was done a week and a half after I was billed the 1/2 tier fee.

ei at the time they billed me, it was all under my name and there wasn't any contribution to any group.. I new nothing about groups before that time.

also, in every purshace window and my tier information, the amount mentioned I would be billed for was always 75$. But this information is useless if indeed the lands are added up as they tell me..

Yes this LL employee doesn't seem to understand the definition of the word "peak." Either there is another explanation for these charges, or the charges are incorrect... but that explanation provided really boggles the mind. Regardless of what the billing rules actually are, the explanation provided is not consistent with the usage of the word "peak".

From LL's own 'Land Pricing & Use Fees' page:

Unless policy has changed and LL didn't tell anyone, that support person you worked with was wrong.

Like others have mentioned, do you (or did you) have any tier donated to groups at the time? Because even if you/the group own no land at all, if you don't manually scale back group tier donations, you'll be charged for your contribution.

as mentioned a bit above, no there was no tier donation at that time..

Looking at the land pricing guide there is what I found:



Sans LL speak, it adds all the land together that you've held during that billing cycle, not the largest parcel amount.

Note, this is a monthly cycle, so by next month it should go down to your expected billing amount.

http://secondlife.com/whatis/landpricing.php

PS: I'd like to emphasis the words, FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME, but the BBC code being borked would just make it look silly. It's those words that are the kick in the pants.

*quivers*

*squints and tries his hardest to read it the way you're reading it*

I'm pretty sure that's not right though. It would be very misleading. When I look at how much land I can buy, it tells me how much on my current tier. If I sell, that figure goes up.

I thought that this "for any lenght of time" ment that the tier fee would be charged for the highest amount of land held at the same time *even if owned for just a second*.

But the way you put it, is exacly how they explain it to me..

Ciaran is right. I switch land between groups sometimes (and just did it 2 days ago) - if it was cumulative, it would be double counting all the land and I'd have tiered up. You probably got a new Linden on the ticket. Write a Linden with some more experience, like Robin or Cyn (if she is still there).

I did too, to be honest. But reading the silly thing, I figured this is the kicker, how they can just decide to charge more, (and not have to change the policy one iota) because it doesn't SAY "Based on largest amount of m2 held at one time during the billing cycle." It says peak usage.. which heck, they don't define at all. For all we know, it could mean the added amount of all land owned during the billing cycle.

Not if they stay consistent with the use of the english language in general.

You still need to make sure you tiered down on the website. You don't tier down automatically. If you CAN'T tier down, something is wrong and you might get a better clue as to why you tiered up in the first place.

This does not conform to my experience in the last billing cycle.
I sold land and bought new.
At all times, the tier level in My Account did not go above the maximum area of land that I held at any one point.

At all times, the "Area Available" at my "current tier level" was the tier level minus the instantaneous area of land I held plus the tier that I had donated to groups.

Every time I bought land, the advisory dialog used the current total area owned and donated in order to determine if a the purchase would trigger a tier-up.



Someone suggested that the delay in clearing group transactions might be a factor.
That might be a possibility, but I wouldn't bet on it.
I always had to wait for the group dividends from a land sale to come through the next day before I could afford to buy the new land.
However, I did notice that when the land sold, the effect on land levels for group and personal was immediate. The only delay was in distributing the sales proceeds to group members.

Question to the OP. Did you, at the time of purchasing your 1/4 sim, get a warning window saying something like: "WARNING: Buying this parcel will take you to the 1/2 sim tier level...!" ? If you didn't, then obviously the LL rep. is wrong and you should insist on a revision of the fees.

My understanding of "tiering down" is that all you are doing is setting the level at which you wish to be warned of a tier jump.


From that web page:
https://secure-web8.secondlife.com/account/landfees.php
"If you release land holdings or donations and want to receive tier warnings at a new, lower level, you must tier-down using the radio buttons below. (You may remain at the higher tier level without penalty; tier fees are only charged for the total amount of land actually held within your billing cycle.)"

And that last bit again:
"tier fees are only charged for the total amount of land actually held within your billing cycle."

My experience is that all land purchase dialogs and my recent tier bill were based on the maximum total area that I got to during the month.

Legalese and Companyese/Corporatese are different languages, I swear! Seriously, I can see how it can be read as that though, especially from a corporate mindset.

Although I agree with Calveen Kline, if it didn't bring up the tier change box when the new land was bought, then something is seriously wrong, either way. That warning box is our safety net. It came up when I bought the land in Munford, before selling the land in Disl.

Frankly, drop a notecard on Cyn Linden or Char Linden, explaining the situation, see if they can offer some help. Oh, also CALL billings, don't settle for the impersonal support ticket when this amount of money is on the line! Keep calling until you get a human answering.

Not at all, in fact I had calculated everything and payed particularly attention to that window to confirm my calculations before pressing "purshase".

All windows were very clear as to the fees I would be charged.

75$


I would also precise again that there is no donation, group implicated, tier contributed in the situation.

it was all under my name and was the only only thing under my name. No group implication at all at that time

Then, my dear. Keep pushing the envelope til you get to talk to someone. Call BILLING, hell, it's 50 bucks you're standing to loose.