English as a Second Language

Or maybe they shouldn't login/post while drinking. Oh wait... errr...

I can

http://smartkitchen.ict.tuwien.ac.at/images/snoopy&woodstock.gif

You're a funny guy, Skell. I wonder where one can go to download the TT font for that

All I know is, you can tell I'm american.... I only speak 1 language

2 if you count speaking Pittsburgh-ese

I had French in HS for 3 years, so at least when I hear it I can pick out enough words to get the gist of what's being said. Not enough to speak it.

*Only the cute girls took French in HS. SO....what would a horny teen boy take for a language?? DUH!!!

Another non-english speaker here. Oh wait! I do speak english! As second language thou.

Anyways, in chat I have started to make my own chat language shortcuts. I type out all the words as much as I can, but certain words are staying short, like pic and comp...I cant remember more right now. As you see, I have dropped the apostrophy off the combinations of verb and negative in can not, does not, etc, usually spelled can't, don't, but in my hastyness it is ALWAYS cant, dont. All I can do is to hope it doesnt really mean anything else spelled like that...but who has time for those weird dots anyways?

I haven't met anyone who would like to correct my language skills in chat. I oversee typos in others typing unless I can not understand at all what they wrote. Then I just ask what they meant, I never try to correct it. I am not a teacher, it is not my job to teach adults.

The one grammatical error that triggers my non-native suspicion is the omission of articles. That's because I see it frequently in technical writing from people who, based on names, I presume to have Russian or another Slavic language as their native language. Even so, there are cases where it could simply be a difference between American and British English. (In Britain, a person might be in hospital, while in the U. S., a person would be in the hospital.) However, the practice of omitting articles seems to becoming more common in IM and chat, and I find myself becoming more accepting of it in such contexts.

There are also usages that appear to be common to particular nationalities. For example, I'll see people from India saying "I have a doubt", when the preferred wording would be "I have a question."

good to hear no one will ever be able to speak and write english fluently and that i can only improve my spelling when i can be arsed to do so

The English speakers who have learned to talk AOL need English lessons more than any second language English speakers. If I see another XD or : P I may kill myself!

I usually don't, unless asked. If I'm feeling particularly peevish and someone has just pointed out an accidental (or real) error of my own, especially on the level amounting to a simple typo, I might point out one of theirs in return, but I'm not proud of it.

On the other hand you have some valuable skills to share with those who are in search of them, and many are.

ETA: I've thought of a good reason not to mock other people's typing/spelling - a man last night was dyslexic. I assumed such, I can't explain how but I did. He later said (without anyone asking unless it was by IM) that he was. Thankfully everyone had been kind and helpful to him, but I wonder how often someone feels a need to grill him over his 'unintelligible' typing.

By contrast I also stopped to chat - another sim another place - with a man who was drunk. I thought so in text, I knew so when he suddenly switched to voice. I could mainly tell because he kept repeating himself and 'asking me to join him and chat' when I was standing right in front of him. I eventually left partly because of his mic static but mainly because I felt he wouldn't even recall the conversation later anyhow. And because while he was friendly and all, he wasn't saying a whole lot...

So there are various reasons someone might type or even speak in partial sentences, misplaced words, or spell poorly I guess was my point.

Oh Really? XD

All of our worst moments in life begin with, "I was drunk so," or "I was bored so."

I don't mind the typos and incorrect grammar, as long as the ideas are broken into paragraphs. Then I can see the flow of thought much better and grasp the idea behind what was written/typed.

I tend to go for full sentences, because it reduces the number of annoying people (some people just don't like reading, I think) and because I had to learn how to type in high school. So, it's habit for me. Also helps that I do have a spell checker, since I have long learned that spelling will defeat me.

I occasionally get snippy about the lingo. I try not to, which means sometimes, I won't post on the thread if I can't honestly read it.

And no, I don't tend towards correcting every grammar error I see. Even when I was in high school, I only helped out because the exchange students would ask me to. Especially the whole concept of make/do. Never realized how HARD it is to explain to someone who has one word to mean both. In one case, the person wanted to be a translator once she graduated from college and really wanted to learn the American English.

English is my first, and indeed my only language. I am well versed in it's use and have found at times, the need to "dumb down" to other English speakers. I use that terminology because I have been accused in world of using "ten dollar" words, such as inane, or oxymoron, when around people who have no clue in their meaning. This surprises me at times. But then, I am not one to go around correcting people either. I have found two things to be true as I near my 50th birthday....my spelling skills have slowly been disappearing from sight, and my SL husband/RL fiancee whom by the way is DUTCH, lives in Holland currently, and speaks fluent Dutch, English, German and some French, loves to correct my spelling. I find this sad and amusing all at the same time! So, I have NO room to correct others unless asked to.

-Blu- (Doeg!)

I have the same problem in reverse. Part of me resists the idea of saying "make shopping" or such. If there is no product resulting, I haven't 'made' anything...plus, the negative association with the slang term 'make' (more than one now that I think of it).

Also in French for instance there is one word for everything - like, love, it's all the same...makes it a bit tricky at times, talking to people. I'm not quite sure what I'm saying to them. Lol "If you make shopping with me, I'll love you?" hehe.

Apparently not!

Pep (It's incorrect)

I have a feeling that a lot of the time the problems raised by OPs in this forum have their roots in inadequate communications understanding of some sort or another, and encouragement of them to improve their comprehension and expression of English might mitigate such problems - so it *is* a valid response to point out the ways in which they might misunderstand and be misunderstood by others. Pointing out errors and misunderstandings therefore *is* a task that is relevant to this forum (RA) in particular.

Such posters also do a service to those of us who have a good grasp of English, because it helps to make us aware of the yawning gap of understanding that still exists between us and those who *think* they understand English and *believe* that they are expressing themselves clearly and unambiguously.

Pep (And I *still* believe people would do themselves a favour if they universally indicated if English is not their first language, or if they consided themselves "dyslexic" etc)

How?

-Blu- (Never to old to learn a new trick)

"It's" means "it is". It's NOT the possessive formed from "it", which is "its". Isn't English wonderful in its irregularity?

Pep (Other errors too [sic] but that was a funny one)

You are quite right and I do thank you for the correction. I knew this. It's (correctly used, lol) funny how age seems to play havoc with my English grammer AND spelling skills. In school, many moons ago, I excelled in it. It was my best subject and I still enjoy learning about it. However, as mentioned in my previous post, as I age, my spelling skills are not what they use to be and apparently my grammer skills as well.

-Blu- (Gorwnig odler is a btcih) hehehehehehe

You are four years younger than I am actually.

Pep (But who is counting?)

Yep, with English, for every "rule" there are a dozen or more exceptions and all of them are NOT obvious on being exceptions. I mean, it's rather sad that kids are taught, "I before E, except after C or sounds like 'a' as in neighbor or weigh." And find out there are probably exceptions to that too.

This doesn't even scratch the surface of words that we no longer pronounce as they are written. Definitely? Where I live, it's pronounced definAtely. So, it's a common spelling error in my region and I've even seen spelling and English teachers get it wrong.

But if you think about it, this is a natural thing. Unlike some countries, we don't create new words for things that were created/invented outside our country. We tend towards mangling the word they use for it.

And the differences between the Queen's English and American English? It can be entertaining at all the wrong times. Took me a while to realize that their 'torch' isn't a stick with flames on it, but what we call a flashlight! And the boot on the car.. at least that one made sense to me. The front is called a hood, so why not the trunk be called the boot?

Yes, the English language as Americans speak it is just begging for serious grammar issues.

Weird eh?

Pep (Bonnet, not hood, by the way)

GOD, you are old! JK...lol...honestly, my written English seems to be the only thing suffering so far. I think I can live with that, as I do seem to still be able to get my message across. I think this is the thing that annoys me the most with the chats online. Some English speaking (as a first language) people seem to get lazy or have no grasp of communitcation skills. I am not even talking spelling and perfect grammar here...just actually being able to convey a message, thought or idea. It seems to escape a lot of people. I have always maintained that good communication is the ability to speak to someone in a way THEY will understand you. Not just how YOU are hearing your message in your head, but in a way you will be understood by the person you are talking to. This seems to be a hard concept for some people.
I use to know someone in world who seemed to talk in shorthand. She used full words, not abbreviations, but never gave the full idea that she was trying to convey. For example...one day she came into our bar...the conversation went something like this...


Me: Hi there!
Her: Hi. So, he said you were having that event soon.
Me: Huh? Who said what about what?
Her: My Sl partner said about the event.
Me: We have several events. What are you talking about?

It went on and on this way until I finally got the message she was trying to get across. It was like playing 20 questions!

Good communication is not that hard...just something people forget to use, or perhaps never learned to effectively use.

-Blu- (now THAT was a mouthful!)