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Totally Screwed--land owners & renters |
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Starfire Desade
Can I play with YOUR mind
Join date: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 404
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12-11-2007 14:52
You can't judge landowners by their size either... I have a small place that I rent spots out in and try my best to be fair and reactive when needed.
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Jezebella Desmoulins
Registered User
Join date: 4 Nov 2005
Posts: 561
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12-11-2007 14:56
The RL BBB works because in RL it's fairly difficult for a bad business owner to erase all traces of his business and reappear the next day under a totally new name. In SL, skipping out on your customers is as easy as creating a new freemail address.
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Darkness Anubis
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,628
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12-11-2007 14:58
Many years ago SL (version 5 I believe) I actually owned a small open air market.After about 2 months of chasing renters to pay boxes (and taking thier verbal abuse after they were evicted at 2 weeks past due rent) I decided being a landlord was not for me. I really didnt have the cash to pay them thier due time so I simply removed the rent boxes (which maxed at 4 weeks rental), informed them I would be shutting down but that I would leave the market open for 5 weeks so that they got the benifit of all thier paid time.
More recently I had 2 small 512 plots I rented for home space. My life went nuts and I ended up being out of game for 6 weeks or so. Didnt even check to see if I had gotten rent during that time. When I came back one was empty do I took it off the market. The other still was occupied. CHecked history no rent paid for a month. IM'd the individual. He had told me weeks before to return his stuff and the IM got lost in the cap. We both had a good laugh over it. Lesson learned out of that one always send your landlord (and maybe tenants) messages via notecard not IM. I think I was a decent landlord but it was not for me. There are good ones out there. We had terrific succeess with Alliez and she remains someone we truely respect in SL even though we have our own land and shops now.  _____________________
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Michael Bigwig
~VRML Aficionado~
Join date: 5 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,181
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12-11-2007 15:12
Question: How long was the club owner and the landowner running their mall portion/land-rent for? Were they 'just experimenting'? Thanks for the reply and advice...I need it in terms of renting. These are two different guys (neighbors)... I don't know how long they had the club/mall. The club is still there, they just decided to nix the mall portion...way before my rent was up. The neighbor who offered me practically free land...I'm not sure how long he was there. His land is still there, but it's closed off with a ban line, and there is nothing to be seen within. Funny thing is, I'm on the group still, not on the ban list either...just not in the permit area. I quit the groups, and have noted their names with what I need to know for future reference... _____________________
~Michael Bigwig
__________________________________________________Lead Designer, Glowbox Designs  |
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Michael Bigwig
~VRML Aficionado~
Join date: 5 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,181
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12-11-2007 15:21
Why would you have an expectation of professionalism in SL? I mean--yeah--some people are super-serious about their businesses, but most people did not come in to be landlords. A land owner might think it's a great idea to have a mall one day, a nightclub the next and an ice skating rink another. SL is not a B2B site--so why would you demand professionalism from someone who may well be an 18 y/o kid? The OP writes that they have been moving from one great offer to the next, but might be better served by paying the going rate at an established retail location with decent enough traffic. You might find the professionalism you seek at a place like that. I don't demand it...I simply ask for a little professionalism if you plan on renting to residents. They both had a large chunk of land, and quite a lot of building going on...the club was pretty extensive--I took that to mean it was reletively safe to invest my time (and a little Linden). I just recently decided to look for a second place...I've been quite happy in my main studio for around seven months. And I figured this club/mall thing was worth giving it a try. It's no huge deal...it's just frustrating. My time wasted (although I built a nice prefab studio out of it) was the worst part of things. And the good vibes I felt for SL when I originally met them and was quashed when they turned ruthless...ah well. _____________________
~Michael Bigwig
__________________________________________________Lead Designer, Glowbox Designs |
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Michael Bigwig
~VRML Aficionado~
Join date: 5 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,181
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12-11-2007 15:25
*waves* I've never had any problem with land owners where I've rented or bought land. I also tend to talk to neighbors first. And, I suppose I have just been really lucky. I'm sorry you got shafted here, reading this stuff makes me cringe because we are all so vulnerable due to the lack of any kind of business ethics being enforced in SL. I rather like the idea of a BBB in SL......just a basic group that folks can report back to. And this whole not naming names thing is a bit of rubbish too...(good character speaks for itself so I wouldn't even worry about the freaks that bad mouth for the fun of it).IRL if you have a bad experience with a business..... it's quite the norm to tell people, "hey don't go eat at so and so cause they have rats in the kitchen" or "hey watch out for such and such cause they're known to swindle and charge for work they never did" That's just life......if a person is going to practice bad business ethics & behavior...than they also take the risk of being blasted by the folks that they've screwed over. Oh friggin well... if you're an idiot IRL...word gets out. I wish we had a more fair minded system in that regard in SL. Unfortunately, the way things are structured now, the sheisters and underhanded folks actually get more protection. It's up to the rest of us to just be extra super careful and leary in business. Yeesh....can you imagine if RL worked that way....what a nightmare!! *hugs* I feel for ya buddy. (oh, and btw, I love my camera!!!) Thank you. Seriously. _____________________
~Michael Bigwig
__________________________________________________Lead Designer, Glowbox Designs |
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Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
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12-11-2007 15:39
You can't judge landowners by their size either... I have a small place that I rent spots out in and try my best to be fair and reactive when needed. I don't mean to imply that, Starfire - but one has to be wary of people who are more likely to pull the plug. Every one of us starts out small. Just about every one of us, anyway. I still consider myself small but only in comparison to other large developers and estates. Not in comparison to the average person. I started out renting on islands and have only had good experiences. I haven't had the experience Michael stated. I would say that all my experiences have been good, and most with small estate owners. I have been with Zingg Akami & Cedric Brown on AmaZingg Island, C&F Estates (Nikki Claymore & Berri Fardel), Jenna Fairplay, Ciprian Newall, and Zeke Paderborn of Golden Island. I have nothing bad to say about their fairness and would recommend them all to people looking for a place to live or sublet. I don't have experience with large commercial renters, really, but I am just sharing and putting out some names that you've probably not seen in these forums but who have dealt with me fairly and honestly. _____________________
Affordable & beautiful apartments & homes starting at 150L/wk! Waterfront homes, 575L/wk & 300 prims!
House of Cristalle low prim prefabs: secondlife://Cristalle/111/60 http://cristalleproperties.info http://careeningcristalle.blogspot.com - Careening, A SL Sailing Blog |
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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12-11-2007 15:53
As a general rule of thumb, look at what estate owners have done in the past, and what they have to lose.
Honestly, someone like Alliez with 71 sims isn't going to have gotten to where she is without doing something right. And the odds of her ganking you for 30 prims or $L 500 are pretty darn low.  As for small estate owners - YES there are some good ones out there. Problem is, without time to establish a rep and not much to lose, yeah, they are more subject to scrutiny. Does that make all small estate owners bad? Not at all. It's just a hard, sad fact of reality: breaking into a market is hard to do. And Incanus is 110% right about residents and finances. Even with a group of very, very, very, good people, dealing in good faith and everything positive, expect to absorb tens of thousands of $L a month in missed payments, miscommunications, time lost. If your time as a land baron is worth anything at all, even a mere $L 2500 an hour - put that monthly loss up around $L 50k a month in a sneeze. _____________________
 Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon! |
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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12-11-2007 15:59
In many instances, landlords with good intentions get taken out by the high tier fees. The sad truth is, we are all slaves to tier. I feel like a poor sap in The Matrix... I do all the work and spend all the time just so LL can slowly drain my life fluid.
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Read or listen to some Eckhart Tolle. You won't regret it.
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Darkness Anubis
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,628
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12-11-2007 16:03
snip... Honestly, someone like Alliez with 71 sims isn't going to have gotten to where she is without doing something right. And the odds of her ganking you for 30 prims or $L 500 are pretty darn low. ...snip I am going to date myself badly here but we dealt with Alliez way back on her first sim Rue D'Alliez. And you are absolutely right. She did it all fantastically right from the beginning. _____________________
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Nina Stepford
was lied to by LL
Join date: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 3,373
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12-11-2007 21:25
it may sound shallow, but tend to favour avs that have some sort of a forum presence, either here or at sc (rip), slx or slu or whatnot. in the absence of any sort of in-world reputation its the closest thing to public accountability and peer review.
for example, if i wanted to set up some arrangement where i let a camera shop somehow have the ability to screw me over, and i had a choice of either going with joe blows cameras or michael bigwigs cameras i would have to choose bigwigs nikon camera shop. even without any knowledge of the people behind the operations i could at least have a bit of faith that the forum regular wouldnt want to give me cause to run all over the forums talking about how i got stroked, sending pm's and warning people and whatnot. i would feel safer knowing that i had a way to affect that persons reputation as a deterrent. _____________________
SLU - ban em then bash em!
~~GREATEST HITS~~ pro-life? gtfo! slu- banning opposing opinions one at a time http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/zomgwtfbbqgtfololcats/15428-disingenuous.html learn to shut up and nod in agreement... or be banned! http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/off-topic/1239-americans-not-stupid.html |
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Puppet Shepherd
New Year, New Tricks
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 725
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12-11-2007 21:49
There's already a SLBB in place. It has gone nowhere as far as I know, because they have no teeth. The SLBB - wasn't that the one that people were complaining about because the folks running it had their own agendas and were biased in who went on the naughty list? From what I recall, they had as one of their "mediators" (at least early on) a guy who runs one of the largest 16 sq.m. ad lot advertising networks. Any resident-run group is only as good as the people who stand behind it, and unfortunately, it's easy to hide in SL. One person could have an upstanding righteous citizen avatar and a money-grubbing criminal alt avatar playing opposite sides at the same time, and no one would have a clue. But not me. I'm a good dog. _____________________
Come see my new 1-prim flowers, only $10 each! Lots of other neat stuff to find @ Puppet Art,
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Lilypad/200.092/210.338 |
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Bellissa Dion
Fringe Dweller
Join date: 5 Jun 2005
Posts: 183
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Just in case...
12-11-2007 22:43
Luckily I had taken a copy of the prefab...of course. As far as ALL the stuff inside...I'm hoping he returned it all to me. To be honest, I'm so frustrated, I haven't even looked in my inventory for the stuff...frankly, I don't care. Most of the stuff is already there from before...the nocopy furniture is the only thing I might not have had returned... Is an AR even worth it for these two neighboring nincompoops? Hi Michael, I've been in that situation myself and yeah, it's not pleasant but a fact of SL I'm afraid. The reason I'm replying though is, I've read the thread but didn't see anyone address this one issue... if they did I missed it. No one can delete others items (unless they have modify rights). Even if they 'delete' using the pie menu, it simply returns the item/s to the owner. This was tested thoroughly when I brought the question up (by a couple of Lindens). So rest assured your items will be in your L & F folder. ~B |
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Trix Writer
Registered User
Join date: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 4
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12-11-2007 23:05
It seems you have found out for yourself what many others have in the past. In SL many people find themselves in all sorts of striffe. I had to buy my own parcel of land just to stay away from these kinds of land owners. Since then I have found that there are more sincere and legitimate owners who do really want to help. I really hope that you are able to find somewhere to set up shop, and I am sure you would have received by now. You are quite welcome to use one of my blocks (rent free), as they are not really in much use for anything else other than collecting prims.
Sincerely. Trix. |
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Dragger Allen
Registered User
Join date: 3 Mar 2007
Posts: 247
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12-11-2007 23:13
. I really hope that you are able to find somewhere to set up shop, and I am sure you would have received by now. Sincerely. Trix. I meet with Michael in game and set him up in one of my shops for the month for free To ease the pain of his loss,i do not have the best malls in SL but are not the worst either so at least he has a place to test the waters so to speak and see what happens. On a side note Michael was probably one of the nicest people i have had to deal with on a rental and it was a pleasure to meet him |
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hexx Triskaidekaphobia
Born Again Pagan
Join date: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 100
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12-12-2007 00:49
What I'd like to know is, why bother owning or renting land if you're not running a business? I know this may sound odd, but some of us are actually not in it for the money. _____________________
my other bike is a broom
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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12-12-2007 00:53
I know this may sound odd, but some of us are actually not in it for the money. _____________________
Read or listen to some Eckhart Tolle. You won't regret it.
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hexx Triskaidekaphobia
Born Again Pagan
Join date: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 100
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12-12-2007 01:29
Damn, and I was going to ask you if I could buy a vowel. Ghehehe. Now that you mention it: I have placed a box with vowels on my flea market. Free of charge, and copy/mod/trans so they can last you a lifetime!  _____________________
my other bike is a broom
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
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12-12-2007 01:50
Damn, and I was going to ask you if I could buy a vowel. /me vowwwwwwlllllzzzzz and waves at Raymond. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I still wish to complain most strongly about Mr Figtree's incessant promotion of http://www.acomplaintfreeworld.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _____________________
Maggie: We give our residents a lot of tools, to build, create, and manage their lands and objects. That flexibility also requires people to exercise judgment about when things should be used.
http://www.ace-exchange.com/home/story/BDVR/589 |
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Marcel Flatley
Sampireun Design
Join date: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 2,032
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12-12-2007 02:10
On my first parcel of mainland I created a small mall, and rented out a few shops. When I decided I didn't like the place after a while, I refunded the shopowners the remaining days, and 1 shopowner even told me to keep the money as he was already very pleased I announced and wanted to refund
Recently a mall owner where i just started to rent, had to quit the mall because of RL reasons. Announced the fact, and sent refunds. Bummer because he really had a good looking place, but very well handled. Two examples of relative small places where things went the right way Doesn't make Michaels experience any better though...As for renting, at the moment I rent estate (about 7k m2) for my small shop, and a few shops i decided to rent out for free. So most certainly I am making a loss, but I do not care. I am in SL for the fun, not for the cash. The shops around my own generate traffic for my land (I hope) which benefits me. So they are pleased, and I am as well. The estate owner I rent from I do trust, the estate managers respond quite fast when asked something, and I can never loose more then a months worth of rent when Steve decides to run From the money I gained from selling my mainland plot I can pay the rent a few months, so I am quite pleased. And... no addfarms Greetings, Marcel _____________________
New in town: Floating furniture!
http://www.sampireundesign.com http://www.slurl.com/secondlife/Gaori/44/66/603/  |