Totally Screwed--land owners & renters

Cristalle, thank you.

I'm a relatively new renter--well...I've been renting my main studio for around 7 months now...but they are so professional and easy-going, I've forgotten about it. I pay the box, and I'm left alone (I do work with the sim owner on certain builds as well, so I know for sure he's got his shit together).

But these two recent events were my first experience outside the bubble, so to speak. And I was burned by both, within days of each other. And the thing is...they both really liked me, so it wasn't personal. It was just a complete disregard for business ethic, and an absence of empathy. And to make it worse...they both spoke very little English. I had to use a babbler to communicate with them sometimes.

I've chalked this down as a 'lesson learned.' I know what to do from now on--and I'll never truly hold my breath.

Thanks for the advice guys. OH, one more thing: can you recommend a mall that gets high traffic, and is reasonably priced. Not to be picky either, but I prefer a mall that looks good as well.

And any sympathy I had while reading your story just evaporated. Nice job.

Perhaps I should accuse all tenants of being late-payers and inconsiderate to the hard work I've put in on my sims, based on one or two examples. I won't, because I know it's not true and it would be unfair to the vast majority of tenants.

Jesus. I'm sorry I said that. It was a tad harsh, and I probably should have toned that down knowing people would take offense.


Let's just say, I'm batting 1 for 3...that isn't a good ratio is it? In my experience, that IS the majority. Is it not?

I'm sorry you took offense. Try to see the big picture of the thread, don't focus on my lack of diplomacy. Thank you in advance.

Your Correct in that statement when i had my first mall / sale area i did not give any time away
I have grown to over 160,000 meters and i have to pay my tier on it any way so i do give a few weeks here a few weeks there as it cost me nothing to do so
malls always have people moving in and moving out so always some empty stores/shops avalable
The reason i give a few weeks here and there is it gives some one the chance to test the waters so to speak before actually spending there money on rent in my mall,it cost me nothing to do this as all the shops are never rented any way and if the few free weeks creat sales for the tenant then he is happy and will rent when his free time is up there for creating an income for me

just my thoughts and hte way i do busness

It's really hard to read forum postings--emails, too, for that matter--and get the intended emphasis of the writer. My first reaction to "the majority" was also to read it as, "effectively all"--which is not what the OP said. But I thought about what it technically means, and frankly, it's an open question whether good or evil really has numerical superiority here.

From experience and reputation, your tenants know you're not gonna screw them, and so do those of many other folks who post here. But it's a cold cruel world out there, and I really suspect it's easier to make a mistake renting land than it is to end up with a happy situation.

Advice to investigate a landlord before renting only helps those who are doing it right.

What I'd like to know is, why bother owning or renting land if you're not running a business?

I'm sorry to tell you that I agree with him. I've twice lost a shop to landowners like that. People that randomly decided that they weren't making enough profit on us and decided to just shut down, even when we *offered* to buy the land or find a new owner to buy it out. It's not that landowners are to be hated, and not quite "not all should be trusted" but the fact is, there ARE a lot of people that ruin it for others, and because of that, you don't know who you can trust.

The basics are, before you do ANYTHING regarding rentals....

1. Find one that's well-established (a year plus if possible) and noted as being dependable.
2. Ask the other tenants how well the service is, how involved the landowner is with their tenants, etc.
3. Have a contract that's not just verbal. On a notecard, created by the landowner. Outline terms clearly.
4. Be aware that fate's out there, and anything bad may and will happen if given half a chance. People move on. Businesses fail. Tenants move out, causing extra stress on the landowner and remaining tenants, and so on.
5. If you rent from good people, recommend them to others! This is tied to #1. Trust is a resource to be traded, not hoarded. (Sorry, don't mean to sound so vague there)

Question: How long was the club owner and the landowner running their mall portion/land-rent for? Were they 'just experimenting'?

I understand, Dragger - you have enough land that a week or so here and there isn't terrible and you can afford it. But for someone just starting out as a landowner, maybe purchased a 4096 or 8192 and developed a small mall - I would wonder. I know that my tolerance for losses is pretty low, and the thought of eating 1/4 of my tier at a later date just to get people in the stalls is not tenable to me. I have a free week policy for referrals, but that is different - it is more of a reward to long term tenants than anything else, and builds goodwill. And it more than likely will not cost me 1/4 of my tier on any given month. For promotions in small places that are just starting out... pause, and don't commit for more than about 2 weeks at one time.

Michael,

I was sorry to read of your bad experience with not one but two individuals. Also, happy to see you understand not all of us are like that.

A suggestion for the future. Always be sure to check out who you might decide to deal with. Talk with others about them, do a search on them by name in the forums. You can find some interesting info at times.

Come January, I will have been in business in SL for 3 years, never have I sold a sim out from under anyone or just put them out for no reason. I have 71 sims and if I can ever be of help to you just IM me in world.

Customer Service should be the #1 priority for all who run any type of business as most of us know and do our very best to give.

If you ever decide to rent from anyone in the future if I have land open, I would be happy to help you.

Alliez Mysterio

Even though it ended badly, you acted wisely by only investing a few $US up front for the deal. That's part of the advantage of renting: the low risk. Your time wasted was of course worth a lot more than that. I suppose the only way to guard against that would be to take copies of your work into inventory.

You shouldn't have to make any stipulations on what they can do with the studio you prefabbed for them; I would think the permissions in the object should be set to make the stipulations for you (i.e. no-transfer).

They also can't steal your objects. When they need to move them, or when they go belly up (and I guarantee they will) you'll get the objects back.

I wish I could be so sanguine. There's one especially sleazy island owner who's been around quite a while, with a diabolically effective business model: Selectively advertise to the clueless using adfarm plots, take outrageously high up-front and monthly fees from them (remember: they're clueless) till they wise-up and abandon the property (no way to resell except to someone equally clueless), and repeat. If by chance not enough have recognized their error to make room for fresh victims and their up-front fees, fabricate an excuse to evict the longest term tenants.

It's a "through the looking glass" approach to the rental business, where everything reputable is simultaneously inverted--and thereby achieves a weird internal consistency. It works out nicely for that island owner.

Another day in sl, so what's new?


Don't believe the hype. SL isn't all wine and roses as some want you to believe.

Whether you agree or not this is what goes on in sl, this is reality.

Michael, sorry to hear about your bad experience.

One good thing coming out of it (yeah unfortunately ) is a lot of good advice in this thread to lesser experienced people out there.

Hope you have better luck next time

Twice out of how many times? I've had three malls close on me, each one refunded me in full for my remaining time.

Whatcha gonna do with the stuff you bought? Where are you gonna make sweet poseball lovin'?

I owned land at first for a club, then decided that wasn't for me but wanted to build a Home. I owned 2048m for just a home for a while.. in fact most of my land is just that! I didn't decide to have a shop until recently, so I owned 10km just for a good Home really.

Why would you have an expectation of professionalism in SL? I mean--yeah--some people are super-serious about their businesses, but most people did not come in to be landlords. A land owner might think it's a great idea to have a mall one day, a nightclub the next and an ice skating rink another. SL is not a B2B site--so why would you demand professionalism from someone who may well be an 18 y/o kid?

The OP writes that they have been moving from one great offer to the next, but might be better served by paying the going rate at an established retail location with decent enough traffic. You might find the professionalism you seek at a place like that.

Oh and whilst we're talking commerce, Xplorer Cannoli has always been good for me in terms of setting up stores. Granted he im's me on a regular basis to moan about my sign poking through the wall of the store next door but he seems to know what he's doing when it comes to vending spaces.

Creating, building, scripting, playing... just for the sheer hell of it

Your world, your imagination .... it's not just a marketing slogan.

I hope you won't be offended that none of us landlords will be quoting you in our promotional materials.

As a consumer I agree however as an outside this is impractical (one of the reasons why so many people get screwed over by bad landlords) and it's economically destructive as you'll end up with very few landlords that leads to higher prices for everyone because no landlords will be able to get renters thus no profit for them and no chance for them to earn a reputation.


Again, great in theory but in practice there are landlords who suddenly turn awful or suddenly disappear despite being great before they do and the same word of mouth issues favoring the big established ones.


Pointless... a contract in SL is not binding unless your actually willing to take someone to real world court to sue them over it and even I doubt it would be found enforceable. Doubly useless as long as LL refuses to get involved in resident disputes.


... Nothing really to say about 4 or 5 though I agree wholeheartedly with 5.

This is terrible advice and largely untrue. Most landowners are good, responsible people. Some are better than others, but you mostly only hear about the jackasses because people never go to the forums to say "I don't have any problems with my landlord!"


This is good advice. While I'm always sad to hear when people get screwed over by unprofessional landlords, when I see chat transcripts with some of these crooks (the lack of punctuation or ability to spell, vulgar language, and "lol" at the beginning and end of every sentence) I wonder, "Who in the hell would rent from this person, anyway?"

This is not to say I blame you, Michael, I'm sure you're smarter than the average bear, and some people can seem to have it more together than others. But in SL real estate, reputation is more valuable than first impressions.

*waves*

I've never had any problem with land owners where I've rented or bought land. I also tend to talk to neighbors first. And, I suppose I have just been really lucky. I'm sorry you got shafted here, reading this stuff makes me cringe because we are all so vulnerable due to the lack of any kind of business ethics being enforced in SL.

I rather like the idea of a BBB in SL......just a basic group that folks can report back to. And this whole not naming names thing is a bit of rubbish too...(good character speaks for itself so I wouldn't even worry about the freaks that bad mouth for the fun of it).IRL if you have a bad experience with a business..... it's quite the norm to tell people, "hey don't go eat at so and so cause they have rats in the kitchen" or "hey watch out for such and such cause they're known to swindle and charge for work they never did"

That's just life......if a person is going to practice bad business ethics & behavior...than they also take the risk of being blasted by the folks that they've screwed over. Oh friggin well... if you're an idiot IRL...word gets out. I wish we had a more fair minded system in that regard in SL. Unfortunately, the way things are structured now, the sheisters and underhanded folks actually get more protection. It's up to the rest of us to just be extra super careful and leary in business. Yeesh....can you imagine if RL worked that way....what a nightmare!!

*hugs* I feel for ya buddy. (oh, and btw, I love my camera!!!)

bummer Michael. total bummer.

we have some landlords in this forum who are on the up and up, myself being one of them (SMALL parcels, but still). so, yes scrutinize. but don't distrust 'everyone'.

Seriously....from the horror stories I've heard and the experiences I've had with land owners MOST are either crooked or unsympathetic when it gets between them and their money.

I personally run a small non-profit club on sl (all though is any club profit? ) and I made the mistake of going with a resident owned sim ...instead of mainland.....was there for less then a month and ended up selling my land for an exceedingly low price in an attempt to not lose EVERYTHING.

Here's a few things I had to deal with:
-------------------------------------------------
1.Immediately after moving in one of my neighbors built a gynormous sculptie waterfall that lagged out the sim so much that no one could put any attachments on..and the land lord refused to say anything because ..well..it might piss them off and eat into his bottom line.

2. About a week into my moving in the landlord sold a plot to ANOTHER club that was the EXACT same genre as mine..when I mentioned this would be bad for business the response I recieved was "money is good" (for him obviously)

3. Any time I got in any kind of squable with the landlord he threatened to "play dirty" or "hurt me" in some way..which I took to be a threat on my holdings.

4. While he refused to talk to other people reguarding lag causing issues...he consistantly came in and asked me to remove scripted items from my plot...even going so far as to ask me to take down my streaming radio board ..which is a MUST HAVE for a club since it announced the next song etc...and really didn't cause much lag at all.

5. When I finally decided enough was enough and this sim wasn't for me...he refused to refund any of my tier..which I had stupidly JUST paid up for the next month.....so I lost about 10,000l (I had LITERALLY paid him the night before.....he apparently decided since he had my money..now would be a good time to flip me some shit and threaten me again)

I mean....Karma works or whatever..this guy gets griefed on a REGULAR basis cause of the crap he pulls....but seriously...I moved to mainland and haven't looked back since. ....It may have cost a little more..but dude...it is SOOOOO worth it when you factor in what COULD happen.