Random first impressions from a SL newbie

Really?? Maybe somebody not at work can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure it's always been there in the View menu, right under (over?) Property Lines..

XP? Mac? Linux? English install? (XP, English here)


No worries. I usually take the "hey, I learned something" part of the day as the signal that I can start drinking or goofing off..

XP English here, over and out

/me begins to doubt her sanity and considers leaving work early so she can go home, log in and check..

Instead, I checked the source code. It's in there - right under Property Lines.

I was going to write something along these lines myself, but you beat me to it!

Well said, and seconded.

A few more thoughts and replies...

While the example of 'my dancing friends makes 30k puts her not in a low class' certainly is valid for that SPECIFIC case, I think generally my comments still stand. For example have many Jenna Jameson's are there in the p0rn industry vs. bill and jill doe's? Of course there are exceptions in every industry but as a whole I think my comment is accurate that the typical dancers, strippers, etc do not make as much as my friend with 30 stores all across SL. Most of the stippers I have met in sl seem to get by (many do not however, as have seen and been asked to help out a stripper/escort friend for exmaple) but not making close to the above example.

Felt I needed to make/clarify my point on that level.

However OTOH, do not interpret my talk about the economy as what I perceive SL to be all about. While one CAN make $ here I am not under the impression thats its main focus. It is IMO about community, socializing and exchanging ideas and opinions (like, in the end most other online mediums). Do not think that is lost on me! I just discussed the economy aspect as I found it such a interesting and vast topic.

More 2 coppers later

Strauss

When talking about income in SL, it's good to see the Population and Linden Dollars sections on the Economic Stats page, just to keep perspective.. http://secondlife.com/whatis/economy_stats.php

If you make _more_ than US$10/month in SL, you are _far_ into the minority.. Actually, if you make more than US$0/month, you're well into the minority.

I've enjoyed the OP's observations, and this thread, but I think we have to drill down to some fundamentals of SL to really look at this subject.

I think that, to a large extent, trying to shoehorn residents into classes is a losing proposition. It implies that the virual world is imposing some sort of classed society on the residents, and this is patently not true.

SL is, at the end of the day, a Libertarian free-market economy and society, with the one caveat that LL serves as a virtual Federal Reserve Bank (or pantheon of minor deities, if that works better for you), and that you have to adhere to the Terms of Service (TOS). Other than that, everything is up to individual choice.

What does this mean? It means it's up to every individual to choose what they want to be or do. You can be a penniless begger one week, and own a sim the next. You can have a job, or not, build, or not, buy, or not, sell, or not, and so on. There are people who are more able, i.e., they bring real-world knowldedge and skills to SL that carryover, or less able, i.e., they don't.

What SL does provide, however, is a platform that the latter group can use to find, acquire and develop knowledge and skills--if they as individuals choose to do so.

This brings me to another salient point: the fundamental concept that SL is based on "user-generated content." LL admits that they really don't know what's going on inside SL most of the time, because they are not building it--the residents are. It is not within the realm of Linden Lab's self-declared responsibilities. SL does not owe anyone a "job." There is no such thing as a "job" in SL, unless one resident can persuade another to handover L$s for a service.

So, get out there and make some choices--and make up a "class" of your own!

Same here, i build/socialize/spend way too much money for fun in SL which in turn gets me better work in RL.

Maybe were the "philanthropists"?

It isn't quite as simple as that. Yes, a free market economy can give individuals a lot of scope to develop as they wish. But, at the same time.. the first page of any economics textbook should tell you, that the entire reason economic systems exist at all is that not everyone can have everything they want. "Unlimited desires, limited resources" is the fundamental economic problem. If that problem didn't exist, we wouldn't need an economy at all; we could just give everyone everything they want, and then we're done.

Another problem is that you can't "find, acquire and develop knowledge and skills" in every regard. Artistic talent, of course, is the big sticking point. Yes, I can learn how to build an archway out of prims, but how did you decide to put an archway there? That bit's a lot harder to transfer or develop.

Second Life's economy is constantly changing and shifting very fast. Yes, at one point, it was standard a while back in many markets for people to come in, build things they enjoyed building, then and sell them and grow that way. But now, new people have to compete with the people who did that months ago and are now established, and there's not so much scope for enjoyment and growth when you'll have to compare to a competitor in order to be noticed at all - so a more businesslike attitude might be needed. I know that many content creators are afraid that an RL company will simply come in and put a team of professionals on one of these jobs, thus freezing out "fun" creators altogether; but the truth is, the development of a market will do this somehow eventually, no matter what happens.

It's a little like the market for computer games; in 1980, there were hundreds of computer games written by single individuals who basically wrote the games they themselves enjoyed most. But now, in 2007, even some of the most talented of those have fallen out of the industry entirely; and the only way to survive in the industry is to work such long hours that your SO sues your employer for inhumane treatment (yes, it happened: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/21/business/yourmoney/21digi.html?ex=1258693200&en=40a60cc6d7971ab2&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland ) And computer games are a very similar market to SL content: they have very little in the way of "raw materials" other than artistic ability and a static cost of computer hardware, and 90% of the costs associated with sale are for marketing..

Bravo!! I'm impressed, you can actually keep count or are you cheating and asking others? Don't lie now.

Your new thing now, counting off? If so then give me proper credit, it should be a lot higher then that. You should know this, since you're one who loves keeping track of a few people here.

I just made up Class 7 sims.

Welcome to SL Strauss,


I too have experiance with many other online worlds and SL is unlike all of them...

On the class issue I kind of all in the middle, mostly I buy my lindens, I make decent money in RL and dropping a chunk of change into SL so I can live like the rich and famous it just fun for me..

I am also a content creator and make a fair bit of lindens creating custom things for other.. And a little from my store.. But the biz side of things is just a kind of hobby really. I build things because I cannot find them inworld.. And when I am done I stick them in my shop, not so much to make money, but I figure if I wanted it, someone else might too. *smiles*

I own both mainland and lease estate land.. My island paradise on estate land is one of my joys in SL... Like more than a few others, I have a relationship here that I treasure, and so SL is a real place for me, I "live" here with my love in the evenings.. And as such I treat it like life.. It just costs money to live, and there is no way around it..

Just a kind of side note about the relative "worth" of things.. I was offered a job a while back that paid L200 an hour.. (about $1 US).. I realized I could spend an extra hour at work and have roughly 12k lindens for the hour.. It just kind of puts it in perspective for me.

I think the most important thing is to just enjoy yourself here. There is so much to see here, so many wonderful people to meet and fun things to do.. Just for example in the past few weeks, We have gone sailing, skydiving, hanggliding, taken up my airship for a cruise.. Went out dancing in a club, romantic dancing with my love at a castle. Explored an island as a pair of neko's, another island as a pair of blue fairies.. And did a lot of just hanging around and enjoying wonderful conversations.

Have fun here is the whole idea really..


Lizz

205 and counting ....

Hi, mate, welcome to SL,

You pretty puch pegged SL for how it is and how I felt when I first started, there sems to be a huge gap in job market, becaus e there are no raw material or food industries, no transport industries etc, but then again it's SL and not RL
Guys without computerskill can find it hard for jobs, at least girls can hop straight into dancing if they like

Thank you for this reply, however I heard there are restrictions on 'mainland' parcels..?

I'd like to build a home and perhaps have part of it a lounge/club area for myself and my friends to hang with. (Private club if you will) however, from my understanding any kind of perceived 'commercial' entity (even if such makes 0L) is not allowed on the mainland.

any clarification appreciated

-Strauss

oh there are male dancers out there too ... and I do mean male avatars, not Oryxs 500lb trucker from Ohio ... he plays a girl!

Hi Strauss and a belated welcome to add to the list

I am first to admit I know little to nothing of Finance but I think we're talking a rather unique case of two finances here; Linden Lab and SecondLife 'in-world'L$

At the LL ends we have the consumer, the account holder, spending real money on tier or L$ flowing towards LL to pay for the servers, the power, the Lindens wages, the rent and the vallium.

In-world we have the account holder who has bought L$ buying content, paying for services, tipping dancers, escorts, DJ's, hosts/hostesses, flowing through further content creators, land managers towards either cashing out or paying tier. Nobody 'needs' these L$. Anyone deciding they don't need their little home have no tier to worry about, can find loads of freebie clothing etc to produce a reasonable avatar and enjoy the social aspect of SL to the full. Many, many avatars I've met have long histories and still have pretty basic avatars.

As Tegg just pointed out, SL doesn't need caterers, window cleaners, gas fitters or telephone engineers. The only necessary cashflow here is into LL to keep the servers going.

Do drop by the forum clubhouse Strauss. Meet soon

added: OK, re-reading this I'm way too simplistic in my view I see. I wish I had more time to think it out but hopefully I won't get too flamed over this .. and after all .. it is Friday! .. have a good weekend folks!

No, there are no restrictions on mainland if you're buying. You can use the land for a business or for a home, or both. Basically, as much as anything is ever really 'yours' in SL, once you've bought mainland it's yours to do with as you wish.

Some people are born with a natural ability to draw, design, and conceive. However, the majority of us, took what God gave us, and applied ourselves. We 'chose' to learn and better our abilities, because we had the desire to--anyone can do this if they have that drive.




Yes, for some, but for others, this 'competitive market' you speak of, is actually what I crave (many of us do). It is because I wander around and see things that blow me away or make me think, which jazzes me up and make me want to create something just as inspirational or well-crafted. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having talent around you either on the level or even better. We learn from those around us who have applied themselves differently, or have a different background in the arts. How else are you to better yourself? One way is the study of someone more experienced than you.

And if this hurts someone 'just getting into the mix', well that's life. They have to decide whether they have the discipline and desire to become a competitor in that particular market. The same people that steal the jobs in SL, are the same people creating an amazing atmosphere for you to explore. And we as craftsmen and artists love to compare and contrast...we love to share and learn. We love to be inspired. If I don't get a particular job because someones' architectural skills are more refined than mine...so be it. I have no hard feelings about that. It just makes me want to work harder, and refine my portfolio and skill-set. Even the best of us don't make the cut sometimes. When a job is filled, there can be only one. No matter how skilled you are, you will always have to deal with rejection.

Know what I mean?

There are fewer restrictions on mainland than there are on private islands or private estates where you rent. This is why mainland often seems chaotic and estates often seem orderly. Each to his own. I prefer the flexibility and freedom of mainland.

It's true that people can do a lot to better themselves, but there are some limits on this. You can't, for example, train yourself to have more ideas that you used to have.



And that's great, but the thing is that psychologically there's a point where the gap becomes too big and stops being inspiring and starts becoming oppressive. And this applies to everyone in a different regard. I mean, many creators - even the larger ones - here have posted about their fears of a large corporation coming into SL, and just giving away top quality goods. Or witness the fear that arose when Anshe started selling furniture for L$10.

Everyone has that barrier somewhere, it's just in different places for different people. And for a lot of people it seem SL's is getting a bit wide. The attendance at new player Show and Tell events has fallen by more than 50% in the recent few months. The sandboxes on Help Island used to be routinely so busy a separate Mentor was needed there - now they are frequently empty. And yes, there _are_ bad feelings - not particularly aimed at individuals, but just general frustration. From various conversations I've had with people it seems very much that for every person who has made something, there are at least one or two other people frustrated that they can't make that kind of item because the first person has them beaten before the race begins. (Ok, they could go ahead and do it anyway, but how can they motivate themselves to work and improve when there is nothing for them at the end?) I've been in both positions at different times. And let me add - this doesn't mean that the people building things are doing anything wrong, of course not, it's just that any activity has ripples across the whole pond and almost always, at least some of those ripples are negative. And yes, that can be an upsetting thing to realize (it was for me, too).



I don't doubt that there _is_ an amazing atmosphere in SL, and many amazing places... but the retention rate is still showing that exploring isn't enough. People want a greater sense of involvement. Getting a job is part of that, but it's not the whole thing. And it's also important that people understand that many of the creators on SL _are_ the rare, talented ones - even if they had done nothing before they started making things on SL, they still had a rare, dormant talent. Because the attitude that just anyone suddenly ought to be able to succeed at artistic things just leads to people thinking they're a failure and becoming depressed, IRL, if they don't make it - especially since they assume that in a virtual world some of the limits of RL will be gone. Rather than pulling them around Kersten's demotivation spiral for probably the fifth time in their real lives, it'd probably be better to be realistic from the start.

The arguments about hard work and similar are fine but the problem is, SL has to be made for its customers, with all of their psychological flaws as they are. If someone is turning to walk out of the door of SL, you won't stop them by rushing up to them and saying they're obviously not hard working or driven or interesting in it, they'll just head through the door all the faster to get away from the nasty person insulting them.

There are lots of terrifying bits of potential there. If the SL prim editor was disabled, leaving only placing and rotating and resizing prefab objects, then probably lag would be reduced by at least 50% (after all, you can just store everything on DVD!) and hosting and thus tier fees could be lowered too... will the Lindens, some day, be forced by the position of _their_ business model to consider that tradeoff? Given some of the changes they've had to make, this is still a proposition that's "out there", but it's no longer as "way out there" as it once was...

> To buy smaller land parcels from other residents (to own outright, not rent):
Open the search window, go to the land sales tab.

When you say the above are you referring to this website or the SL client?

That's inside SL Strauss

The client, thats what I thought, thanks!

Ahh...the confines of society. Of course you can train yourself to have more ideas...that's what a sketch pad is for...a diary...a journal...an empty page. Brainstorming may sound like a natural thing, but believe me, it can be quite chaotic and loose...artists, writers, and creators are always working on bettering their imagination, their creativity, and their brainstorming. Just like writing in a dream journal every morning will, in time, allow you to remember every dream you have. It takes practice...and this is no exception.





I disagree. Let me give an example: the sunset I see at dusk in real life...can I create something that real and beautiful in Second Life? In Real life? I sure can strive, but then can I evoke the same emotions in a painting? It's extremely difficult. I'd say there is a HUGE gap between what nature can express, and what the average artist can express...but that should not discourage you, it should inspire you. OK, now take another artist: Devinci. Can I sculpt as well as him? No, I'm no where near as talented an artist as he was. This does not dissuade me from creating...it inspires me. Take another competitor: Lit Fuse. His stuff is fantastic, and is in direct competition with me. Again, this does not bother me, it excites me.

Now, yes, this is all subjective. But life doesn't 'hold the bus' for ya...it moves on. You either get on, or you don't. It up to YOU the artist, the creator, the individual to better yourself, your skills, and your confidence.

If you can't keep up in this rat race, you either have to drop out, or find another type of race. There's no shame in moving on and trying new things. That's what life's all about.

If a company does what you do much better, for much cheaper...it's time to go to work...to study. HOW are they better? If you aren't afraid to go head on with these challenges, you're better for it in the long run.

An artist isn't born--they are taught.

And I never said I expect someone to jump on SL and become an artist. Those of us with successful businesses have spent (in some cases) many years practicing, in school, creating, sweating...all that time spent isn't for nothing. Don't expect to be at that level without putting your own time in...





Listen, I can express to a resident how wonderful Second Life is. How expansive, how creative, dramatic...whatever. I can go on and on...but it's really up to the individual to decide whether this metaverse is worth it to them.

I can only be upfront and honest. If someone wants to come in [SL] with no previous modeling and texturing skills, and complain that they can never be a mover and shaker...well, someone should tell them like it is. It takes time. Hardwork. Practice. Repeat and rinse.

If they run away from SL because no one is holding their hand to a path of artistic enlightenment...that's no one's fault but their own. I'm not being cold or harsh here...I'm being honest. If they want help, they can find it...but no one is going to usher them to the path of glory...it takes crazy discipline and dedication.

Don't take this post as being difficult and disagreeing. I agree with a lot of what you said, but I had some key points I wanted to stress. Cheers.

Anyhow. I've enjoyed this conversation. Damn, were is my coworker....I want to EAT!

As much as I enjoy my SL - I would not wanted cluttered with "work" - It's bad enough I have to get thru eight hours of that a day so I can get on with SL .

I think it is wonderful that there are content creators - I have become quite accustomed to the fact that I am not one of them- so be it- I am also not a dancer, escort, stripper, club attendant, etc- I know I want those folks in the infrastructure of SL - it makes my SL more enjoyable. I like being greeted when I ge to a club and if some one is being paid to do it- all the better.

I am a consumer- I buy clothes, furnishings, poses and land- I tip in the clubs and generally supply some financial input to our economy - works for me