what causes "group liabilities"?

What causes a value to appear for "Group Liability", as shown in Group Info -> Land & L$ -> Details, for a group without any land?

Here's the Details tab:


Here's what the Planning tab shows:



There were 149 members and each was charged $1 on 12/31. Why?

I assume that to pay a group (to clear such a liability), you can deed an object to the group and pay the object. Is there a simpler way?

Thanks!

One thing that causes group liability charges is group land that is listed in "Find places" for L$30 a week.

Your group members might appreciate having "pay group liability" unchecked in the role capabilities.

Or quite the opposite when you sell the land!!

having "pay group liabilities" also means you share the wealth if the land was owned by the group.

So that is why my transaction record shows i paid a freakin linden for the cartel group... Another linden towards my bankruptcy

Happy newyear to all

Marcel

Unfortunately, that 'ability' is set so that all group members pay and receive by default, and a lot of group owners have no idea that it's set. Groups also have the potential to scam members by setting it and buying land.

I once got an IM from a panicked group owner. She sold a large plot of land and forgot to uncheck the group liabilities. Over 800 group members got about L$65 each. She asked us all if we would be kind enough to pay it back to her. I gave it back but I always wondered how many (or how few) others did the same.

How are they scamming members? The group owners receive no benefit from it.

The group members pay for the land. Then the group owner effectively owns the land and can sell the it to him/herself for nothing at any time, or just keep it as it is. Am I mistaken about that? When buying for a group, does the group pay? I've never done it, so I don't know.

Right now, a *lot* of people are paying for the group to be shown in Places, and they don't know it, because most people have no need to look at their account history. The group owners don't know it's happening either, because it's the default setting.

I have bought lots of land for groups, using the "Buy for Group" button. The money always came out of my "bank" and was never paid back by automated means by the group.

Paying for the group to be shown in places is not scamming the members.

Thanks for the info, Chris. What about tier. Can things be arranged so that the group pays tier?

I didn't suggest that it's scamming. It's being done by mistake. But if it's done intentionally, then it would be scamming in many many cases.

Tier has to be donated to the group. It is an action in which the resident has to pull up the group info screen and enter numbers in a box. Now a person can forget and leave tier in a group, even if the group has now land. That tier always counts against the resident's tier until it is removed.


30L spread out at random among all group members. In a group of 300 members each would according to the odds, pay 1L every 10 weeks. For what in many cases is the free entertainment offered by the group land, 1L isn't much to ask.

I get at least 2L's worth from Brenda alone.

It's not too much to ask in some cases, but it is too much in many or most cases because it wasn't stated that membership means paying. It's not the amount that matters; it's the fact of taking people's money without their permission or knowledge. If it's done intentionally, then it's theft, and theft is theft, regardless of the amount.

For a short time, I rented a shop in mall, and I noticed the 2Ls going from my account, so I stopped renting. Later I discovered that the same thing was happening in my own group - my tenants were paying for the Places listing, and I'd no idea. I'm sure it's usually a mistake like that.

That was at the 2007 pre VAT Rate. Expect a slight increase in '08

Hope you are working on 17% funnier material for the coming fiscal...

As soon as the writer's strike ends.......

Whatever you're paying your writers, it's not enough.

Take a look at any book on forming a business under "partnership" - essentially this is a SL "Group".

You share in the profits and you also share in any debts that ANY of your partners incur!

In RL you can even go to jail for things your partners do!

Think VERY carefully about joining a "group" for a business, you WILL get to know your "partners" better than most people get to know their spouse!

This might explain why I spent more time this week with a talking robotic dragon than with my wife.

That actually gets listed as a separate line item and isn't included in "group liabilities". You're correct that everyone pays (unless their role is edited to disallow that).

Thanks! That's a big help. While it doesn't explain the liability, it prevents shoppers from being charged in the future.

First, I seriously doubt that a negative balance of any resident would be distributed to groups they own or are members of.

Second, an SL group is not necessarily equivalent to a RL partnership. Of course, you CAN form an SL group to represent a business partnership, but you can also form groups for other purposes. For example, a book club: if I'm a member of a book club, am I liable for the debts of all other book club members? Of course not, in SL or in RL.

Well the fact that there is no "body of precedent" in SL makes any such prediction just about impossible.

You might check with an attorney in your area about the book club though. There are definitely times when you could be held liable for their actions.

The first thing that comes to mind is a book club that actively promotes "The Anarchist's Cookbook" (a very low quality bomb maker's guide). Likely the surviving relatives would consider anyone associated with the book club to have some sort of liability

I suppose if you wanted to scam this one would have 2 blocks of land they keep selling at say $1 and rebuying at $800 eachtime sucking $800 Linden from the 400 group members, who may not notice the $2 each time. Then again if you have a group of 400, you are probably offering something they all want anyways, and hence making more profit than $800L is worth in effort.