Verification?

Good. Then YOU can take MY liability. I should not have liability when I am not the one making the money. That is a grossly inadequate risk allocation mechanism by any measure.

Your cable company asks for your ss #? Thats a little scary . I can understand a bank asking, but not a cable company. I have satellite tv and dsl high speed and neither ask me for my ss when I call them.

Elinah

So you're going to move the goalposts?

THe issue we were talking about was credit cards being used as verification.

As for liability, what proof of liability do you have? Solid proof.
Not conjecture, not hysteria. Proof.

It's all risk allocation. If you want to hide your head in the sand about that, be my guest. But that's what this is.

From the UK passport office:

"9 What we will do with the personal information in your passport

We will pass the personal information in your passport to UK and foreign immigration authorities or law enforcement agencies responsible for border control. This will enable them to confirm that the personal information that appears in your passport is the same as that on the Identity and Passport Service database.

A passport is not an identity document although many organisations accept it as evidence of identity. If you present your passport as evidence of identity to obtain a service e.g. to open a bank account, we will confirm or otherwise that the details in the passport you present agree with the details on the Identity and Passport Service database. We will not disclose your personal details to the organisation requesting the check."

So a passport isn't an identity document and although it can be used for opening a bank accounts there's the proviso that it's the passport you present, not just the number.

Soooo... none?

Just conjecture and doubletalk?

Risk allocation? What risk? Based on facts, what risk?

Okay. Let's go back to square one.

If there is no risk, then why is LL instituting verification to begin with?

What does that have to do with Credit Cards?
"...many organisations accept it as evidence of identity..."
That puts the burden on the organizations themselves, not the Immigration office.
Linden Labs, the organization, have chosen to NOT use Credit cards as evidence of identity, based on Visa saying that they will not be responsible for indentity verification.

Exactly a hacker can get that info and the more info they get the easier it is to gain your identity or do a number of other things to you. It is a problem to decide how much info to give out online but I need draw the line somewhere. How much you are comfortable with is your decision. I want to be cautious. Giving out a cc #is a necessary evil but the others are clearly not.


Elinah

Wow... another question dodged. Well done. That was a Matrix Move!

Keep moving them goalposts!

You're clearly not interested in discussion. Oh well. Good day.

Did you not read what I said? Last four digits of my SSN.........not my SSN. That's five digits short of my SSN. And yes, my bank asks for that too. And the state of California asked for too when called about a sticker being removed from my license plate a couple years ago. The phone company asked for it when I called to change my long distance provider. Lot's of places ask for those four digits. But I"ve never been asked for the whole number. Regardless of what you think.........that number is a very common method of verifying you are the one who's requesting information about a private account.

I just wonder what protected world you are living in.

No, I AM interested in discussion, but I am getting the feeling, from the way you keep changing the discussion, that you aren't interested in hearing anything other than "OMG LL SUXORS CUZ THEY WANT TO MAKE MONEY SELLING OUR INFO!"

You've managed to change your argument from Credit Cards to "Why is LL doing this?" without answering any of my questions.

But to answer yours:

Linden Labs, as a company, has made a decision to eventually implement a program of voluntary identity verification. That's it. You and I don't have any right to demand a reason for them doing it until we buy into the company. You can ask, but they don't have to tell.
Do you demand to know why Coke decided to make Coke Zero?
Any answer that you or anyone else comes up with is simply conjecture.

I have never thought of it that way, and you are so very right.

Elinah

Because you keep hiding behind the Visa argument. Integrity have no authority whatsoever to confirm UK passport numbers. They might as well ask for your inside leg measurement. They cannot verify this information.

Well my reasoning is this ... I have read that the last four digits of a person's social are the only ones in a ss # its not relatively easy to guess with a little research. And those are the ones they ask you to give away. Once a hacker has those its conceivable he can easily guess the rest. That is what seems scary to me. Even if it is prevelant and many companies ask for it that doesn't make it safe. Just thinking out loud on this one.

Elinah

The problem with the DNC list is that charities and political parties are exempt. So, guess who I get six or seven calls a day from?

If Integrity does sell information it will be too late to stop them after you are verified. So this system needs to be iron-clad before its implimented.

The claim of the earlier poster about their information getting out should be reported to LL and it should be diligently investigated by the Lindens.

The reason Credit cards are so attractive as an option is that people have to give their CC info to billing in order to buy stuff. This isnt going to go away. So everyone is always going to wonder why they cant use them.

The system can be billed as voluntary but its only voluntary for some people. Others will have to change their ENTIRE second lives if they dont verify.

Therefore its voluntary in the sens that a drivers license is voluntary. And thus the system had better be safe for the customers.

yet Coke has not asked me to hand over information of mine for no purpose. I see no comparison.

I have spent thousands of USD on SL. No questions about my, so called, verification while taking my USD. If my age is in question talk to me, dont hide behind 'trust building'. I have lost all trust.

That is a legal statement to avoid VISA being liable - that doesn't mean that credit cards *cannot* be used for verification just that VISA will make no legal guarantees that they *can*.

However, passport *number*, driving license *number*, social security *number* alone are also not suitable for verification, and you will find (as pointed out above) government websites in various countries also stating that these shouldn't be used for verification either.

So if you are to discount credit cards for verification on the basis of a disclaimer by one of the issuers, you should also discount passport numbers etc. ono the basis of a disclaimer by some of the issuers.

That said, Integrity do not have access to the passport/driving license/social security numbers of a number of countries (e.g. the UK) - Integrity are in many cases validating on data publically available - i.e. anyone else could get this data about you to verify.

However, whereas Integrity cannot access this data in many countries, credit reference agencies can (this is the case in the UK) - i.e. to get a credit card in the first place your identity is verified far more rigorously to determine your credit risk, than the Integrity can do.

Finally, if someone uses your passport number, social security number to verify - you will never know about this. If, however, someone uses your credit card number and the verification involves a small transaction (and apparently the Integrity system will involve a small charge for non-concierge members anyway), the owner of the credit card will be informed when they get their statement. It is this audit trail passed to the owner of the card which makes it a verification vehicle (someone uses it to masquerade as you and you will notice). A credit card will only be issued to a minor if a parent or guardian guarantees the debt, so a responsible parent/guardian should take an interest in the contents of such statements.

So in summary - neither credit card numbers, passport numbers, social security numbers, driving license numbers are suitable for verification, and strictly speaking should not be used as such. However, credit card numbers are the lesser of the various evils.

Matthew

And anyone you have bought something from in the last year ( though they sometimes ignore the year part and keep calling long after ) and surveys too I think. There is a state wide no calls list in my state I have been on for years I believe those are the rules and once I got on it the calls dropped . I also got on the national one. By the way I heard its time for us all to renew on the national list soon?


Elinah

I give up.

Visa have just said, basically, that having a credit card isn't absolute proof of age. Neither is this scheme that LL and Integrity have cooked up.