Will this affect my UNflagged parcel... or not? Lindens - a clear answer please?

I needed to evict one of my tenants today and in doing this, it has brought to light what should or shouldnt be happening within my parcels once age verification kicks in and I would like a very clear, detailed answer to this from a Linden please, and hopefully some helpful comments from fellow forum readers who are more than likely wiser than me!

I have four parcels at mature Aswang, a small plaza of shops, some rental homes, a woody walk area and a lakeside beach, together with a project I am working on. Although in a mature sim, everything on my land is suitable for PG areas.

I have no intention of age verifying at all. I believe the Lindens have sufficient information regarding my identity and the fact that I pay lots of tier every month must show that I am not some underage kid "borrowing" his parents credit card, cos they would have noticed the expenses going by now. I am also worried about identity theft too, so just will not go along with the age verification.

OK, with that in mind, and the fact that really my land is very tame SL-wise, it will not be flagged (even though it is on a mature sim) because as far as I am concerned my businesses there have nothing within them that needs to be restricted (sex, violence, or otherwise).

Once my homes are rented, I do not enter these unless it is by invitation. But, today I had to enter the home of someone I was evicting, because if I had done it via About Land, it would seem I would have to return the belongings of all those within my group. So I decided to return each individual item belonging to this tenant, meaning I had to go into their house. It became very obvious that pictures on the walls showed avatars naked and having sex and there were a couple or so, er, sex objects hanging around too!

My concern now is, once age verification is forced on us, if I leave my land unflagged it means there is nothing that is restrictive there. So anyone can come along and have a look around (as they would if they were looking to rent a shop or home from me or use the shops), but because I would have no knowledge of the items my tenants have in their homes, someone might see or come across nude pictures or sex objects in these homes and then AR me as the landowner because I have my land unflagged! I dont really want to have to go and regularly inspect my tenant's belongings to check that they arent using or leaving sex objects lying around in their own homes. But if I was to get ARs done against me, will I be suspended or banned from SL, in which case what happens to all my land and belongings, that I have paid for or been paying LL for for almost a year?

If I am told that anyone using sex items in their homes that they rent from me means that I must flag my land as restricted, that would mean that I cannot enter my own parcels/home because I have not age verified. So it seems to me either way, I will be losing all my land/belongings/money etc whichever way I flag or unflag my land.

It does seem a tad unfair, that I have poured money into LLs pockets (not as much as some of you I admit), and have been working hard to make a nice place for others as well as for myself to be able to enjoy SL. But I and everyone else is being made to do something that I feel most of us dont want to do, simply because LL have allowed underage youngsters onto the Grid, who shouldnt be there anyway and who have lied to be there and now LL expect us to police the grid and each other at our cost!!!

So, please would a Linden reading this, tell me how I stand with regard to having an unflagged parcel and inspecting the contents of my tenants homes??? Will it be acceptable to be unflagged but know some people in the privacy of their own homes might have sex object content in them? And will you ensure that I dont lose everything by being banned or suspended because I dont think I should have to go patrolling my tenants homes, searching for unauthorised sex things in an unflagged parcel?

u`ll have more luck getting funds out of ginko then get an answer on this besides the other thread that is somewhere below this 1

Here's the link to join in the fun....

/327/68/211451/1.html

Good luck. I have alerted my tenants, however, that I *will* be flagging the residential parcels as mature/restricted because let's be real - people are going to do what comes naturally in their homes. I am willing to set aside an unflagged space, but that means that they cannot have explicit poseballs on the premises. No one as yet has told me that they do not intend to verify. Most of them seem comfortable with it. I do not want to lose my land, or for them to lose their stuff. It's their home too. I believe flagging is the only responsible thing I can do *and* stay in the game. They have options if they want to stay.

I personally don't see how they can make us flag parcels if we have stuff inside our homes, I hope it's just for outdoors & maybe public indoor places like clubs. I know people can cam in whether it's restricted or not, whether it's the home or parcel, so I don't know why they even bother, mature should be enough

I don't even know if i'll be able to verify, not having a passport or driving license, as someone else said, surely the fact we're paying regularly from our debit or credit cards should be enough? It's just one big mess to add to the mess already

Why can't we just agree on mature land means there may be this & that there kids keep out lol not like they can't access the restricted easily anyhow

Nope, if you don't verify under the new system, you won't be able to access restricted parcels...LL doesn't care about your payment status for this. I have heard of some concierge customers who managed to verify with something like name, address, and birth date, though, and no actual ID. Can't hurt to try.

Surely not the credit or debit card is enough argument again. There are plenty of threads on this. Many countries, including the US kids can get a credit card at the age of 13. The credit card companies themselves told LL they cannot use them for age verification.

LL can make you flag your own parcels because unlike RL they are not truly your home and can easily be accessed no matter what type of security you have. People really need to understand ownership and privacy DO NOT exist in SL. It is a fallacy. As for camera controls, I have no doubt that LL is currently brainstorming what to do about those.

Now there will continue to be lots of bashing about LL but people really need to understand that they are just legally covering their ass. It would be negligent for them not to do so. And please, before anyone says it (they will anyway), you will not see Linden Labs moving the company and all it's employees offshore to some non-existent magical land that has no laws or restrictions.

It is my understanding that there really is no functional difference between outside and inside in reference to the TOS. Granted, when your doors are locked, shades drawn, there's really no way to tell unless they go looking through houses for stuff. Sure, why would anyone do that... right?

Well, now we are going to have a reason. We're basically legally, criminally liable for any minor camming in, etc., seeing the stuff. What people aren't considering I think is that not only will this be a problem for mature areas... but it will be as bad for PG areas.

Why?

Because PG areas, if I read the last post correctly on the subject, CAN'T be marked restricted. So it isn't a matter of having a home in a PG area, and with the shades drawn and the door locked doing your foul, dirty deeds. You simply can't do them at all.

In the end, I think this will mean that when someone sends a new skin or sex animation advertisement out to a group with 2000 members, if one kid is a member, mature group or not, you risk legally the charge of distributing porn to a minor. That's why we didn't HAVE kids on the main grid, so we didn't have to concern ourselves with such.

Now that we are going to be held responsible, and LL has basically washed their hands of responsibility for kids being on the main grid... things are going to change. At this point, if these changes seem to go where they are leading, there's no reason to have a teen grid at all, frankly. Everyone you meet that isn't verified will have to be assumed to be a kid.

Based on their actions, I assume a good percentage of them are already. Thankfully most of those I meet in SL are wonderful people.

There will be plenty of verified kids, a lot more than there are with payment info on file or payment info used.

I've made the argument before and I will again. Just because some kids will be able to get their hands on cigarettes, liquor and porno doesn't me that we just throw up our hands and put them at the bottom shelves of the store anyway. It's all about taking precautions.

The reality is, though, that's not the point. LL cannot control what happens in every home. They cannot control parents to limit access of personal information from their children. What they can do is show the courts (if necessary) that they are doing everything in their power to control it. That's what this is all about.

Umm that's exactly what LL are doing. This is being sold as protecting minors. That means they're accepting that kids will be here and are putting it on the bottom shelf of the store.



LL know this system is flawed and they're ignoring that. That's hardly doing everything in their power. This is about LL protecting LL, they should be honest and upfront about it and stop trying to sell it as something that benefits residents. It benefits kids who would have had a hard time getting payment info on file because now they can verify all too easily and be flagged as an adult.

I'm confused by the fact that you say that LL is hardly doing everything in their power yet the next sentence is that LL is protecting LL. Which is it?

Be honest and upfront? You mean like every time a company changes their product to reduce cost but touts it as New and Improved? The day you find truth in marketing, please let me know.

You have a better way? Please share it here! I doubt you can, though. Those of you who want to whine about the system LL is going towards always want to point out its flaws but can't offer up a better solution. Why, because there is NO perfect system! None. Just because we don't have a perfect system doesn't mean we shouldn't have one.

let's face it, this isn't about protecting kids, this isn't about covering there own rear end, this is all about profit... Aristotle has paid SL for the rights to do this under contract, just as they are changing the auction system to use a third party most likely because they were paid for the rights to it... it's win win for SL, they get off the hook for things, another company pays money to do it instead, the other company gets traffic from SL's population... I bet if you offered 300,000$ for permission to take over the upload / download of textures they would release a note saying for the betterment of all users all textures will now be stored off site and make it look like the most wonderful thing to be occuring ever....

Did Aristotle actually PAY LL to do this?

This is the first I heard that

Of Course they Did, thats what they do.... pay for rights to data mine (.)

and this is a bloody dead horse please flag it as obscene

If true then it makes no sense at all that they wouldnt sell your data.

exactly.

Hehehe ...

There is no conflict between "hardly doing everything in their power" and "LL is protecting LL".
LL are not doing anything better to keep minors out. Minors will verify using adult data without any problems whatsoever.
LL is setting up a PR mechanism to protect itself from bad publicity. It does not protect us. It actually puts minors in more danger.


"You have a better way?" is a tired old bankrupt argument.
There is no point in introducing a new way (of keeping minors out) if that way does nothing to improve on the old way. Verification is a farce.

The new way (verification) is actually a step backwards in any wish to keep minors away from adult content. Minors will have no problem in verifying. Residents who do not realise how trivially easy it is for minors to verify will be duped into exercising less caution than they do now.

The argument is no less bankrupt than the "Kids are going to be getting their parents information and getting in anyway" argument. I think it improves dramatically over the old way. My daughter does not have my personal information and therefore it wouldn't be as likely she'd be able to get on. I can't control other parents lack of parenting skills but it makes it much easier for me. Oh God I know! Not 100%, but BETTER.



Yes, because residents are working so hard to ensure minors stay away from adult content currently. Thank you for the laugh.

If your parent skills are up to speed, then you probably don't need verification to keep your daughter out of SL.

For those parents who don't/won't monitor their childrens' activities, it's unlikely that their children (who have already lied about their age to get access to porn) will be unable to get the details required. They can find it in the home or they can dip into the same public databases that Integrity use to verify the data.
Furthermore, in some countries, the details needed are only Name and birthdate, or those and a licence number.

This verification only works for the people who don't need it.
It's a charade.

Nice to see some common sense and fact in amongst all the pathetic "end of the world" whining.

I agree ....

If i have to verify ... then not a problem, I have problems with being data mined of course I do ... and certainly LL has to comply now that they are also based in the UK... but like said by Nicholas and Bradley ... the Lindens responsibility is primarily to Linden Lab to make sures its legal and upto date. It has been cought with its pants down on MORE than one occasion by allowing free reign by the residents to do what ever they like. Anarchy never really pans out too well for anybody, theres always going to be that little bit extra kink....eventually SL turns into PORNOLAND ... people join and people leave based on that, The lindens are offering a compromise between sure you can get that " Freaky kinda love" but you need to be verified to do it...

If 12y/o mike finds SOMEWAY of verifying and then proceeds to view indecent material its proberly less of a problem than the 1000's of "Free Porn" sites that ARE available. I think its inevitable that like the RL web ... LL is going to combine grids and make it a multiverse both with regards to age AND subject matter. After all from what we hear .... a large amount of SL community are minors. Ive heard many arguments about liberty .... freedom of expression, hought police etc..... but this does come down to wether LL want YOU in THIER world. If your a perv... that stand up and say ... IM A PERV and its my RIGHT to be a perv in private .... great verify and perv to your hearts content. If you say ... I run a night club .... there isnt any sex involved ... therefor its PG...dance away.

Like anything.... there isnt really a way to stay anonymous. If this is all due to opening up the grid ...... YOU would still have had to verify from the beginning ..... the ability for minors to steal ID to get into places they shouldnt is as old as the hills so I really think this is more down to personal feels about being frced to stand by your convictions. And let LL protect itself against thiose that MIGHT try to take it ALL away

Ha

If they Data Mine me they will mainly find out I have no spare income due to my SL spending!