AVATARS are a bunch of Lag!!!!

Am I not right in thinking that the worst of these ways in which they can lag a sim when really they shouldn't -- https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 -- isn't susceptible to requests to detach your scripted items after arrival? They create the worst of the problems on arrival, but after the sim's recovered from the initial shock, they aren't necessarily the worst offenders, so by the time anyone's recovered enough to tell the offender to remove the item, the damage has already been done.

Oh, yeah, I think that's correct. Well, there are still lots of other ways a script can lag a sim that don't get reflected in script execution time (and so aren't properly contained in the sim's "script time" and so aren't controlled by the frame time-slice allotted for script execution), but right now I think a huge share of the problem will disappear with SVC-3895's resolution.

A more general observation about the likely ill effects of asking folks to remove "laggy" stuff: Even viewer-side lag is unlikely to be much improved by removing lag-inducing stuff after-the-fact. The very last thing you want to have happen in a crowd is an avatar re-bake. (Well, okay, not the *very* last. Worse would be TPing out and back in again.) Besides, viewer-side lag is largely under individual control: just crank up the aggressiveness of avatar imposters and turn off rendering of attached lights and particles. After that, it takes a really determined blingtard to slow down the viewer.

Not useless.

AO's: They are probably the number one most important script an avatar can wear. They replace SL's default animations with something that (hopefully) actually approximates an animation that looks good. Sure Emerald has taken that to a new level with a built-in AO, but it's also a rather steep learning curve for many people to make the animations work in that AO. Far more effective to still use a scripted AO.

Meters: I'm assuming you mean combat meters? Now these are not necessary in many sims, and it would of course be a good idea to take them off before you leave the sims where you're using them, but they're still far from useless. They're a great way to meet a specific purpose.

Scripted hair: Also not useless, and I'm sure the people opposed to resize scripts are going to come down heavy on me for this one. Resizing good hair can be a very difficult task, even for experienced SL residents. The introduction of the resize script was actually a fabulous idea. The problem is in the implementation, and the fact that (if you even can) many people don't do anything to make them go dormant once they've resized their hair. Although there is a very good reason for not deleting the scripts as well. That's only good until you change your avatar's shape, then you're stuck with hair that doesn't fit again. Copying the hair of course is a good workaround to that, then you can delete the scripts from the copy. That also causes your inventory to grow though, and with the rumors about upcoming inventory limits that have been circulating, do we really want to encourage people's inventories to grow?

Scripted shoes: Scripted to do what? If it's about resizing them, see above. Color changing? Also similar to above, but even more important not to remove those scripts. Bling? That is starting to get into an area where there are greater complications. Scripts that are always listening to channel 0 and can't be turned off (such as bling off or bling on)? Extremely bad idea. Even in the latter case though, the scripts are still useful, and so are the shoes.

Scripted pants: Same as the shoes above.

HUDs: What huds? I have one that monitors my stream and displays for me what's on there. It can also be used to say what's playing which I can turn on or off at will, for when I'm DJ'ing. Even when I'm not this is a very good thing to have, because if something goes wrong with my stream I'll know much faster by seeing it on my hud. This makes that tool indispensable since I keep my stream up 24 hours a day. Some other huds play games, certainly not always necessary, but neither are they useless. Other huds fit into other categories, but the bottom line is that they wouldn't exist if they weren't useful to somebody.

Spy stuff: If it's being used for spying, it's still useful too, but 99% of the time it's just plain wrong for people to even be using such things. So here I am more in agreement with you than on the other points.

Bling: In a word, UGH. I know some people like it, but it's been taken to extremes. Limited, sensible bling is still not useless though.

Perhaps your post was just an unfortunate choice of words, but to come down on all these things as categorically useless, is simply not at all factual. None of them are useless.

This is sooo true, I do not have anything about Attachments,
that are indeed usefull, (more or less) and for sure we all know
that the SL Servers are not the best.

BUT

It is a clear line, that we all need to deal with what we have,
(sadly servers) and a Sim can only take what it can take.
So we can all shout against LL to get things going, or we can
decide to be respectful Avatars.... even now or then.

Randolf

Naaaa... I´ve got a good one.... really,
think I did not check it...

Yours Randolf

Hi Qie,
thanks for all your informations, they are very helpful.

I work on this since some weeks now, and for sure,
when an Avatar steps into a Sim, the sim gets a Hick Up.

But if an Avatar taking 1.700 or more ms of script energy,
then hes waering a lot of stuff.

Imagine we have 10 of them arround... oiiii , can kill

But you seem to know a lot of it, what I would love to
see, that others would just recognize it from time to time.

I do not want LL to stop attachements, I want to have the
choice as a Sim Owner to get control of it, thats all.
I´m paying for the Service, and my Renters are paying,
real money.... or am I wrong?

Randolf

Yeah, I'll have to come down on you for this one, Rock. Editing hair with the regular edit tools is MUCH easier than using those resizer scripts. I have some hair that I CAN'T edit exactly as I want because a transparent prim blocks my access to the one prim I want to edit. Even when that doesn't happen, I have to enable transparent textures, and cam around to try to find a clear shot at the prim I want to edit.

The menu's "resize" function works OK for both the full hair and for individual prims. But the Move buttons are nearly useless, because I never know WHICH way the X,Y,Z or rotation buttons will move the object.

Plus you sort of shoot down your own argument by pointing out that the necessity of making safety copies of these scripted nightmares bloats one's inventory.

In the Cartel group chat this weekend, someone commented on a jewelry item they'd found. The maker had a notice up, saying something like, "No mod, but adjustable by resize scripting. Sorry, because there are so many prims in this stuff, the scripts don't work all that well."

If I may comment, as a sim owner and as someone who knows a bit about scripts and sim performance, I have to say that if the sim is not performing well, avatars' attachments are not the first thing I'm going to be looking at by any means. The worst they're likely to be doing -- except for the lag spike on arrival if they're compiled in mono -- is lagging other scripts. I can say with some degree of certainty that if your sim's time dilation is regularly under 0.98 or so (the point at which you're likely to start noticing problems), you should be worrying about something other than what people are wearing.

The first thing I would be looking for, I think, is lots of high-resolution textures around the place (that's assuming you're not infested with chickens, of course). And the problem might even be on a different sim.

Before assuming this or that about lag read: http://annotoole.wordpress.com/2009/11/14/secrets-of-second-life-lag/

Optionally vote for: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5252

YES, we gots lag, lots of laaaaaggg!

YES, some of it is scripts lagging the sims

YES, some of it is textures lagging the viewer

YES, we all should be aware of what causes lag and pay some attention to minimizing it, for ourselves and everyone around us.

But a great big fat **NO** to the OP and the title of his rant. "Avatars are a bunch of lag". You sound like a PETA extremist, wanting humanity to commit genocide to let the animals have the planet to themselves.

Baby, I got news for you. Even a basic noob avatar has some impact on sim resources. Take your argument to the logical conclusion, and you have an empty world. It will perform just great, but there will be nobody there to appreciate it.

Well, I think Osprey probably said it best with just the few words in the second post to this thread: relief is indeed on the way.

I've heard (I think in Jack's office hour, or somewhere anyway) that they are thinking of giving Estate owners more fine-grained control over scripts (probably mostly memory use), but I wouldn't expect that to arrive right away together with the rest of the script memory limit stuff. I believe the main intent of that would be to let Estate owners give up some parcel memory allocation to avatars, or maybe vice versa, or to give some parcels more script memory than others, per sq.m.. They can't really relax the overall memory limits because sims that overcommit memory will hurt performance of other sims on the same server.

Meh. I'm rambling again. Osprey had it right: just hang in there, help is on the way.

[Edit: Nice jira, Ann. Voted; even though I rarely spend time on Estate sims, it seems like the right thing to do.]

Hi there, thanks for your Post...

Yesssss the title is provocant, that is true.
And i am not saying that I have found the last truth in Lag at all,
I wanted to get some thinking in this, some coments and some Ideas.

And all of you have given me some good HINTS on what each of
us can do... yes even me. And I am really thankful, that all of you
brought me nearer to solutions.... Deep Thanks to you all

Randolf