AVATARS are a bunch of Lag!!!!

Dear all,

im coming up with this,as im really sucked.

Im runnign several Sims in SL.

Since a long time im fighitng against Lag
on the Sims caused through Avatars wearing
high scripted stuff.... (so called Attachments)

Worst of all are: AOs, Meters, scripted Hair,
scripted Shoes, scripted Pants (all scripted clothes),
HUDs, Spy stuff and all sorts of Bling and what ever.

When I talk about that, I feel deeply hurt, that
some people seem to like all this laggy stuff,
not knowing what they are doing to the Sim at all.

In the pass, Sims got laggy, as high scripted Objects
were on it, NOW, for hell, High scripted Avatars, with
no mind at all, take down the Sims on the whole Grid,
by wearing these USELESS attachments.

I now have begun to send out Info Notecards to the
Shop Renters, to help avoid Lag on Land, but it is still
the biggest issue in SL, since SL is running.

I would like to know, what can be done, if other Sim
Owners have the same experience with this kind of Issue.

I can not understand, why there is still now way in SL
to limit the scripts on an Avatar, as nobody really likes
Lag on their Sims... but do you care, does SL care?

Any Ideas, any changes in sight?

Thanks for listening
yours Randolf

Changes are in the pipe addressing this. Hang on.

The details would take a lot of explaining. As a start:

1. LL is very much aware of problems triggered by too many scripts in attachments; that's why per-avatar (and, separately, per sq.m.) script memory limits are coming sometime late this year, and before that, some better tools for seeing that memory use.

2. The current ability to look at scripts in a sim is extremely limited and largely misleading. If you're concluding that your sim lags because of what you see in Top Scripts, you're basing that conclusion on very limited data. You may be right, but mostly by accident.

3. LL designed the current sim scheduler to try to limit the effect scripts could have on non-script functions, the idea being that scripts should only be able to lag other scripts, and even this is controlled. Unfortunately, there are ways for scripts to have side-effects on the sim that are not part of the script execution time itself.

4. One such side-effect of scripts is memory use (see #1 above) which can trigger swapping on the entire server affecting 4 to 16 sims.

5. Another side-effect is a current bug with starting up Mono scripts, as when an avatar arrives with a bunch of Mono-scripted attachments all starting at once, freezing the entire sim for some seconds. This bug is (finally) getting a lot of attention in LL.

6. I'm not sure, but I believe there are still occasions when memory is not properly released by scripts when the containing object leaves the sim. Such "ghosted" scripts may also retain a slot in the scheduler (and may even keep executing, although again I'm not sure about that, either). If this bug remains, it at least adds to the problem trying to be addressed in #1 above.

Oh dear I am sorry, I must be one of the useless people on here. I have an Ao which allows me to walk without looking like a muppet and I wear hair etc and try to look nice. By the way most users of SL do not consider that these attachments are useless they increase their enjoyment of SL.

I am aware that these can cause lag but I would not wish to be without them. If it is any help, please tell me your SIMS so I can avoid then and not shop there, perhaps you should put up notices saying don't shop here if you were AOs or Huds, I would suggest that this would help you a lot by loosing a lot of customers.

The point I am making is that this is a fact of life in SL and fairly well known. However, if you looks at the forums, help sites and wiki's you will see that users of SL are encouraged to do the things you are against. Have you thought of not allowing scripts to run on your Sims?

A simple AO is one thing...

But what you've got is people using that hair with 300 prims in it, and all 300 prims have a script in them that scans every second to make sure none of them are rezzed rather than attached...

or those clothes that rather than be modify, have a scanning script to let you adjust their size in units of 0.01 per lagy click...

Or the mysti-tool HUD wearers that have all the features going.

And I wonder if the built in radar of Emerald is not client side, and thus burns up lag as well. Because more and more people use Emerald now... its tipping over into a majority of users - and if they've all got that radar open... one wonders.



Has setting a parcel to not allow object creation or entry, and not allow scripts helped?
- You don't need scripts enabled to run your own things on the plot.

I think there is a difference between bedecking yourself with every scripted doodad you can find and having a reasonable number, such as is required for walking properly (And why SL insists on everyone walking like a duck in the first place is beyond me.)
I've stopped buying scripted hair but I'm not sure I can give up my scripted sneakers.

Hopefully, some middle ground can be found.

My understanding was that -- apart from the bug that causes the lag spike when prims containing mono scripts are rezzed, which is a separate issue and apart from scripts that move round physical objects that collide with stuff, which is a different kettle of chickens entirely -- scripts and scripted attachments don't actually contribute much to what we experience as "lag".

I'm open to correction here, but aren't scripts throttled in various ways; I thought that if the total frame time gets above 22ms, it's scripts that get slowed down so other things can function normally. That is, if, for example, the sim is trying to deliver lots of textures to lots of avatars, that lags my scripted attachments rather than the other way round. That's certainly the implication of the remarks about "Time" and "total frame time" at the end of http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Statistics_Bar_Guide#.27Simulator.27_Panel

I agree avatars cause lag, but that's because we move about and need updating on each other's positions and need textures delivering to our clients and talk to each other and so on (so the sim has to figure out who's in earshot) rather than because we're wearing AOs, isn't it?

I used to like to go to some of the euro-rave music dance clubs, and I've noticed a massive lag spike when I do so. Looking around I see stacks of guys and gals in the same blingy 'xstreet top seller' stuff, with the 100+ prim hair, prim-based parachute pants, and all on the same AO...
- some of that stuff is just horrid on resources.

And this is with most of them just standing in one spot, or using the non-random dance ball so that 20 of the people in the 40 sim club are moving in sync to each to other like a bad zombie movie... while the other 20 are moving in sync just standing there on an identical AO that changes their stand pose at the same time...

(check "Element, the 7th", galaxy, or "ToonTopia Dance Club" to see this in effect)

Apparently, according to Babbages updates to SVC-3895, they're coming soon, too.

/me does the happy dance.

I think we'll find that once SVC-3895 is fixed, things will look a lot different. It won't be perfect but regions that are really busy but not being seriously abused will seem far, far nicer.

This time last year, I lived on the old S mainland and SL was pretty decent, even when we filled the region. Always over 8k scripts, sometimes climbing to 11-12k as people with stupid huds TPed in. It was laggy but it wasn't horrible. Then SVC-3895 hit last spring and it's been just painful since, every single time I log in. Even on the shiny new zindra region with 1/2 as many scripts.

At least for me, it's not the load of an individual avatar or even a few dozen avatars that's painful. It's the people coming and going that's been crippling.

I always figured Zindra was more scripty.

That's where all the sexbeds, RLV theme parks, and rotating penises went after all...

The corner sim from my Zindra plot is an RLV theme park:

OY
XO

- Me at Y, them at X.

And when I zip over there, it seems pretty intense. Of course its also almost always filled with 10-40 avatars on assorted poseballs...
- really funny to cam in and watch the campers on the 'use me' balls, when no one is using them... like the guy who was on a ball that ppaid 1L / 15 minutes... and the timer said 3L's earned...

But those places seem a lot more scripty than anything left behind on mainland.

/me wonders now, and has always wondered, why LL doesn't take some simple user education steps that would contribute greatly to a less crashy SL.

For example, if I were Babbage I would sponsor a contest for the most resource-efficient hair and boot scripts. I would package the winners along with a simple template hair and boot that would show the effects of the swapped textures/sizes/etc., and make this kit WIDELY available.

I would also hire a temp intern to hang out at clubs and identify the attachments that most lag the club the most, and drop on the creator a notecard FROM A LINDEN!! pointing out how to compile attachment scripts in LSL not Mono, and containing one of the aforementioned kits.

Take it from a project manager, this would be MUCH less work than providing better script instrumentation (tho of course we desperately need that), and determining/enforcing script limits. PLUS, and here's the payoff, it would be immediately effective.

Perhaps the Forum Cartel should run such a contest, and widely distribute the results. I'm sure the folks at Oxbridge would be on board.

Hi to the OP, and, I feel your pain. Last time I had an event on my sim, it got pretty crowded. We had to up the allowed avatars from 40 to 50 at one point. A guy TP'd in, right in the middle of all this, and proceeded to put on the biggest, blingiest necklace I've ever seen. The kind you see on the freebie markets, bling just screaming and then put on 2 rings, also screaming bling. My top scripts, already out of control just shot up. He wasn't very old, maybe a couple months., I welcomed him to the sim, nicely and asked him if he'd mind removing the necklace and rings, as they were seriously sucking up sim resources. Prior to that, I'd asked everyone to put their Mysti to sleep, and take off any unnecessary huds. Everyone was so nice and cooperative, and he too said sure, and removed the blingy stuff right away. Sure there a few assclowns around but most people will comply if you ask. And many many of them truly don't know the issues. And lots of new people for some reason, really go for bling. I always comply with requests to put my Mysti to sleep, when I get the request on entering some sims. Have you tried just asking nicely and for those that don't know, perhaps an explanation? Might be too much work, but is better than nothing.

This is a wonderful idea.

There are scripted pants?

I've been to clubs full of revolving, flashing, texture changing and particle emitting stuff that makes the place laggy when I'm the only person there!

There are prim cuffs with resize scripts.

Oh. Right.


Somehow, this sounds a lot less exciting.

/me loves my mysti tool

lag smag buy a bettr computer, and limit access to ur sim! what i dont need is riff raff at The Plaza i like my hair and scripted crap

Oh,

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We did a load of testing on this. Do you know how many AVs we needed with 14K+ rezz arc to drop sim by even *ONE* FPS? Nor do we. Couldn't get enough people to do it.

Where does it lag? On the viewers. What causes the most lag? Prims, an all prim AV versus and almost all scripts AV with the same rezz cost created more lag. Why? Because machines understand code faster then it renders big textures on multiple *including hidden* surfaces.

What could the Loose Lunatics to reduce this "script" lag? Some proper multi thread and processor handling for a start.

The biggest issue is not the residents, but the lack of server capacity and power to run the grid. It's on LL, not the residents. Period.

I do not want JOY to come down in SL.... but if Avatars take down a Sim
in such a hard way.... where is the fun, if everyone cant move.
And for sure, noone wants to go shoppping on a Sim, thats full of Lag.
Ignorance is one thing... responsibility and community sharing a other.

I love SL and want to be here, and I do not want to get sucked by Avatars
only thinking about their own JOY... SL is more... its a home for many people.

Randolf

Yes. The whole pants.

Not just cuffs.

They're made with a series of stacked tubes. Maybe 10-20 of them stacked.

The idea is to make them appear to be baggy pants. They're very popular in the 'rave' clubs.

Personally I find they look rather ugly.


Example:
https://uncensored.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=images&ItemID=1950369

From a search of 'baggy' on xstreet.

Now imagine a club with 40 avatars all wearing that, using a radar, and holding raver sticks with particle effects, doing scripted gesture spams in local chat, all using the exact same AO, and all dancing with a dance ball that has them in sync with each other, and 3/4ths of them speaking Italian, with the other 1/4 using google translators to speak bad-Italian.

One of those clubs has been trying to open next to my home plot on mainland. Thank goodness I'm on a near dead sim with nothing around to attract anyone, and that club has no business sense...

s/rather ugly/horrendous/

No kidding. You're talking about ARC, which is all viewer-side--"Rendering" is part of the name, even. (ARC is a pretty sucky measure of that, too, but at least it's relevant to the viewer, not to the sim.)

The OP is talking about scripts, which execute sim-side. The point of this thread is to discuss conditions under which attached scripts can lag a sim, and they most definitely can--right now, they can do so in ways they really shouldn't, and in ways you really can't measure properly with the existing sim and script statistics.