Zero Tolerance = Zero Common Sense

Adults trying to fuck my children doesn't concern me?

What planet are you living on?

I am bailing out of this thread before i get banned from the forums. I can't believe the tollerance that some poeple have shown towards child abuse. Anyone who want's to challenge my comments in this thread can IM me inworld, I will be glad to debate with you.

I can't believe you're all giving this person serious answers. S/he ain't gonna listen, regardless.

IBTL

Go to jail, go directly to jail, do not pass go and do not collect 200 pounds!

I would wage linden that those in this thread saying "It's all good, no harm no foul" don't have kids.

If they do, I shudder for the kids.

My sleeping pills are kicking in but look... its only OK when no real human children are used. underage drawing, pixels, ideas and 100% fine as long as they don't lead to real like child abuse, ubstred of punishing everyone. give harder punishments to people break the law

*blink*

Wow.

And if LL would allow this sort of shit, it would clearly send out the message that it is totally okay to have sex with children. So, yes, I think even this hobby anarchist's playground needs SOME rules.

The rules are what they are because Second Life was getting bad press.

Especially in Europe where laws on Cartoon Child Sex are stricter.

It is entirely within LL's right to put limits on Content if they chose.

Other grids will have other limits - the OP will be able to go to one of those.

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On a related note:

Since both players already know they are over 18 - I'm not sure why the Sexual Age Players care all that much - its just a cartoon. Cybersex isn't really about the screen image.

I don't see what prevents them from using a "18" year old teen avatar.

IM's aren't censored.

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What bothers me about the Sexual Age Play rules are the people who are AR'd for doing NOTHING related to Sexual Age Play!

Kid Avs have been AR'd for just being kid Avs, or being in a Mature Sim, or any number of things that have nothing to do with the ban. Simply because PLAYERS don't understand the ban - And LL didnt deem it worthy of being in the TOS / CS

Additionally many PLAYERS have no idea what a kid Av is .. and report Smaller *Adult* AVs as well.

It would be better in my opinion to have no ban then to falsely accuse/punish people who were completely innocent of Sexual Age Play.

Of course, ever since Lawrence v. Texas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas), most of these laws have been irrelevant.

While I don't really care about how SL chooses to regulate these issues (as they don't affect me or what I do in -world anyway.....it's been months since I been anywhere near any place that simulates any kind of sexual activity in SL).....I don't believe for a minute that regulating this stuff, banning it, or otherwise punishing it with-in SL has ANY effect on whether a pedophile goes out and commits a crime IRL. Zero.....I'm willing to bet that the majority of truly sick and dangerous individuals out there have no connection with SL.....or any interest, for that matter.
What drives a human being to do what they do.....is much more fundamental and deeply rooted than a mouse click and an idea lightbulb going off in their head. And by the same token, what grounds the moral majority to their general decent behavior toward other human beings...isn't going to be swayed if they go into a virtual game and shot up the bad guys....steal a car....or whatever. I've played GTA....had a blast. It was pretend...it wasn't harming anyone...it made me laugh.


I do wonder tho....what even makes a normal healthy adult get into any kind of psuedo sexual play with or as a child on the web. (then again, I'm sure some of the things I fantasize about would cause people who know me to raise an eyebrow lol)

I find the obvious logic reversal in these statements amazing.

If you said "want to role play an adult have sex with a 12 year old avatar, then that demonstrates pedophilic tendencies", then at least it would have some logical self-consistency. It's still a speculative statement, but it would be based on a logically correct parallel.

But wanting to role play the child? Whatever psychological issues there may or may not be, this is the opposite situation. From a research perspective, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that it's a sign of pedophilia, but there are other more fitting, more benign possibilities. Your statement is just being thoughtless and cruel to people who may have been victims of child abuse and who are trying to heal those experiences.


This is just over the deep end. I'm offended by the suggestion of the death penalty for thought crimes. Or, in this case, making it a crime to not have a particular thought.

I would really .. prefer not to see the whole sexual ageplay as"healing" faux-logical argument for the 100th time.

Frankly its a revolting assertion.

The idea that someone will better be able to deal with being molested as a child by pretending to be molested as a child again .. seems to fly in the face of reason.

No one presents any actual data or Psychological literature - they just make all these supposed anecdotal claims.


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People are free to speak their minds of course.

I'm just saying that its more likely to turn people AGAINST the side of freedom for Sexual Age Players than it is to turn them towards favoring that freedom.

And thus .. not accomplish what people who make those claims intend,

And upset a whole lot of people in the process.

i know its not a popular opinion, but i really couldnt care less what two consenting adults do with one another on the grid.

I don't think the sexual-age-play ban is about controlling RL behavior or preventing potential RL behavior. It's about mitigating potential damage to the public image and reputation of the Second Life platform. (and by association, the broader community who inhabit it)

Philip's idea in the beginning that people are basically good, and that given a choice, they'll do the right thing, hasn't really withstood the proving grounds of Second Life. "Your world, your imagination", it turns out, needs boundaries. This isn't a nation state, with constitutional rights conferred to citizens protecting freedom of speech and expression. It's a business, with the imperative that it must appeal to the broadest possible global audience of consumers.

It is folly to assume that one has any rights whatsoever protecting their behavior in Second Life, beyond those conferred by the Terms of Service.

Each society has its own mores and customs. What is acceptable in one society is not in another. In SL society such behavior is not acceptable. Since you are a part of this society you must adhere to the customs and rules of behavior endemic to SL. If you cannot do that, then you would be best served by finding a place that fits your world view. Ranting here is not going to change the whole society.

/me strikes a few towns off her list of places to visit



/me make a note to approach city council about instituting a new law

To the OP

When are people going to learn how to play well with others?
Child abuse is illegal. Laws aside, us normal humans condemn this practice. In RL and in SL. We spit upon those who harm children. We don't want to even think about it being condoned and, in SL, I don't want to go inworld some day to find ads for the latest in kid-porn animations and fetish wear.
Majority rules at all that, whether or not you agree.

Why does someone have to come along and decide that they want to run the world (RL or SL) by their own rules? Learn to work/play in groups or go find a small planet and make up your own world.

BTW, your choice of language isn't exactly conducive to intelligent debate. I think everyone's being quite kind here.

in addition, part of that business imperative is also to not promote, condone or harbor illegal activity.

In the US, advertising or soliciting even "virtual" child porn is illegal (even if the v-porn itself isn't )

In the UK, the virtual porn itself is flat out illegal.

LL is a legal entity in both of these countries and could find itself in legal hotwater. It's course is pretty clear.

They do. Don't get me started on all the "do not ram xyz toy up nose" type warnings on toys because some child's family sued some toy creator somewhere because the child lacked common sense and had hysterical parents.

But that aside, since that's wayyyyyy off topic.

Like everyone, I agree that pedophilia is bad, but I also believe rules are a slippery slope to a noose. The argument that SL RP leads to RL pedophilia actions is weak. Anyone who is a real pedophile, rapist, murderer, etc., can find many activities to indulge their desires and enhance their fantasy life OUTSIDE of SL. As the old saying goes, when one door closes, a window opens [I take a ferry every once in a while and am deeply disturbed by the man I often see sitting in the children's play zone when I know he doesn't have children himself]. And at risk of the aforementioned noose, we cannot abolish every form of entertainment and creative expression that MIGHT influence a person to commit a heinous act. We can't.

Realistically though, what this is all about is simply bad press for SL. They don't want it. For LL, it was worth the results (a few angry persons -- the real pedos have moved on to greener pastures and anyone just thinking the rules are stupid are still in SL doing whatever they're doing) to abolish ageplay. They have to look good to the investors, corporates and so forth.

At the end of the day it's always about money. Always.

real pedos arent going to be 'age-playing' in sl anyway.
they will want real children, at minimum a real child at the keyboard.
they would be on the teen grid pretending to be teens, not on the adult grid cruising for housewives using child avs.

i thought that was common sense.

and that is it, in a nutshell.

/me looks around for her hard hat

This has been discussed over an over an even over again, OP. I would recommend even looking back at some of the bajillion threads on the topic before.

Now then, the resident answer to your resident question -- as this is resident answers, not general discussion.



None. The issue is not "role play," but sexual activities within such role play. This has been expressly banned by Linden Lab.

But that is, essentially, irrelevant to Second Life's rules on sexual ageplay, which are born out of both RL law and out of public perception of these activities. I can only assume you were not here when everything happened, so here's a quick run-down for you: a report from German television showed a sexual ageplay site in SL that also included the trading of real life pedophilia. This, coupled with some follow-up from Sky News and other sources pretty much cemented the link between sexual ageplay and pedophilia as far as Second Life is concerned. It also tainted all who choose to play a child avatar or who are part of a family with child avatars in Second Life.



Ray Bolger called. He wants his straw man back.

As to when, well, whenever they feel it is best for their company in order to remain a viable platform. For example, they turned the SL5B event this year into a PG event, barring sexual content. Again, I'm sure you can find plenty on how this also affected child avatars in Second Life, as they initially had disallowed any presentations from SL's kids regardless of content.



You do know that these forums are PG rated, yes?

Linden Lab cares if you turn that fantasy into a visual representation on their system. I'm not always one to tow their party line, especially when it comes to child avatars -- but I do also understand that they're running a business here, and some things really are going to be over lines. Particularly when they can interfere with real-life laws and lawmakers.

On a personal note... I'd recommend you look into whatever open sim allows that behavior, if only because it'll keep you from looking for it where me and many others like me are.

Mari
(Who has a headache, and is grumbly this morning - ITBL)

I don't necessary believe people who think about certain activities around sexual fantasies or even things they do here would want to do it real life.
Common fantasy is rape but no one wants that in real life.
If you're having pose ball sex with someone here there good chance they may not be the
gender or appear like their avatars, but it doesn't stop people from having pose ball sex.
Yet people are determined to make sure they are only have pose ball sex with right gender they approve of doing that with in idiotic ways.
I never had sex here since I created my first avatar in 2003 until few months back and I have come to one decision I think pose ball sex is boring and most of people who spend most of their time doing it are pretty boring, shallow and something is wrong with how they interact with others but what do I know I tend to be anti-social anyway.
I had encounter recently with one of those age players last week and I decided I don't want to participate in certain activities any more because it truly creeped me out.
Personally what one does in one's own mind is none of my business and what two consenting adults do in privacy of their own minds is none of my business, just don't involve or contact me and expect me to become involved in sexual age play without expecting to be banned from where I live, muted or possibly reported.
I personally will never rezz my child avatar for this reason again and haven't in over six months because it sickens me to be associated with that type of activity.
And at this point any type of sexual activity any where even here I find disgusting and boring that doesn't mean I don't have feelings or that I am prude I just find the entire activity of pursuing others for fantasy fullfillment troubling but that is just bothersome at best at this point.

walks away to shower........