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Zaphod Kotobide

zOMGWTFPME!

Join date: 19 Oct 2006

Posts: 2,087

06-08-2008 18:28

To add to my contribution to this post, there is not a single square inch of land in use on the grid which Linden Lab doesn't doesn't profit from.

Follow the money.

It flows uphill.

_____________________

From: Albert Einstein

Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them.

bigmoe Whitfield

I>3 Foxes

Join date: 29 Jul 2007

Posts: 459

06-08-2008 21:15

were all equal and money can prove who the . well I wont say it

Kitty Barnett

Registered User

Join date: 10 May 2006

Posts: 5,586

06-09-2008 04:28

From: Zaphod Kotobide

Indeed it is. Let's get down to brass tacks though. It's not about supporting Linden Lab vs supporting the economy, it's about the very real and tangible ways in which non-premium Residents support Linden Lab by supporting the Resident economy.

I could agree if you'd said "payment verifieds", but "non-premiums" includes the overwhelming "no payment info" majority who will never spend as little as $0.01 on SL.

Shuffling L$ around in world is essentially worthless since most businesses sell L$ to cover tier, so only exchanging US$ for L$ has any economic value . No payment infos don't contribute to that in any way at all.

From: someone

However, Basic account holders do pay a tier to private estate owners which is relatively competitive with the tier that those estate owners pay Linden Lab. In most cases, even slightly higher, as value is added to private estate dealings.

You can't count profit for the sim owner towards how much you're paying for anything.

I pay about $90/month for 1/2 openspace and 9792m² of estate land, but LL only sees $66.5/month of that, the other $23.5/month goes to the respective sim owners and doesn't count for anything.

I probably spend another $50-100/month shopping, but since that's just going to pure profit for the store I'm buying it at, it's again something that doesn't count for anything.

So out of the $140-190/month I spend on SL, I can claim that $66.5/month goes to LL (and my yearly premium) but that's it. The rest simply goes into other residents' pockets and does nothing to contribute to the platform.

Imnotgoing Sideways

Can't outlaw cute! =^-^=

Join date: 17 Nov 2007

Posts: 4,694

06-09-2008 04:55

From: Kitty Barnett

...So out of the $140-190/month I spend on SL, I can claim that $66.5/month goes to LL (and my yearly premium) but that's it. The rest simply goes into other residents' pockets and does nothing to contribute to the platform.

That idea sounds fine until you crash into someone like me. I don't buy L$ at all. Yes, I did go premium lately... But, a basic member with spending habits like you describe would be making contributions way beyond anything I would ever consider. (o.o)

Plus, SL is it's own economy and is in need of catalysts. Even the act of moving currency from one to the next is a form of profitability. Most free world economies work that way. You can't have everyone "printing their own money". (=_=)

NEWay, premium membership @ $75 per year is not a lot of money to work with per-user. Especially when most of it is paid back in the stipend and the first 512M of land tier. In the end, we're paying for the maintenance fee of the server farm we're beating to death on a daily basis. I don't see how that entitles anyone to special treatment in the open world system that's out here in front of us. (=_=)y

_____________________

Somewhere in this world; there is someone having some good clean fun doing the one thing you hate the most. (^_^)y

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ferguson/54/237/94

Zaphod Kotobide

zOMGWTFPME!

Join date: 19 Oct 2006

Posts: 2,087

06-09-2008 05:36

My point is, the person you pay your monthly rental fees to pays Linden Lab for the islands they parcel up and "resell" to renters. Non premium renters of those island parcels make up a sizeable segment of that market, and the majority of what they pay their landlords is paid right back to Linden Lab in the form of monthly island fees.

No, spending $L in world doesn't necessarilly directly benefit Linden Lab beyond what they might make on Lindex trading, but the contribution to the economy does benefit them nonetheless. Value doesn't necessarily equate directly to a revenue stream for Linden Lab. A healthy marketplace, full of customers who like to spend money, is a win/win.

"No Payment Info".. obviously doesn't do much economically.

From: Kitty Barnett

I could agree if you'd said "payment verifieds", but "non-premiums" includes the overwhelming "no payment info" majority who will never spend as little as $0.01 on SL.

Shuffling L$ around in world is essentially worthless since most businesses sell L$ to cover tier, so only exchanging US$ for L$ has any economic value . No payment infos don't contribute to that in any way at all.

You can't count profit for the sim owner towards how much you're paying for anything.

I pay about $90/month for 1/2 openspace and 9792m² of estate land, but LL only sees $66.5/month of that, the other $23.5/month goes to the respective sim owners and doesn't count for anything.

I probably spend another $50-100/month shopping, but since that's just going to pure profit for the store I'm buying it at, it's again something that doesn't count for anything.

So out of the $140-190/month I spend on SL, I can claim that $66.5/month goes to LL (and my yearly premium) but that's it. The rest simply goes into other residents' pockets and does nothing to contribute to the platform.

_____________________

From: Albert Einstein

Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them.

Kitty Barnett

Registered User

Join date: 10 May 2006

Posts: 5,586

06-09-2008 05:49

From: Imnotgoing Sideways

That idea sounds fine until you crash into someone like me. I don't buy L$ at all. Yes, I did go premium lately... But, a basic member with spending habits like you describe would be making contributions way beyond anything I would ever consider. (o.o)

My point was that "I spend xxx on SL so I deserve yyy" doesn't really work out, cause only a - potentially small - fraction of $xxx actually ends up with LL, other residents get the lion's share.

You're premium but don't buy L$, someone else isn't premium but buys L$, there's no way to figure out "which is better". Both contribute, just in different ways and the amount of US$ that you're spending doesn't really come into it.

Even "payment info on file" is perfectly fine because someone at least has the means to buy something if they ever find a reason to and - when it still actually worked - few people seemed to have "on file" stick anyway, most ended up with "used" sooner or later.

I just don't agree with a customer base where more than half declares itself unwilling to even consider spending money on it in whatever form, especially when it's at the expense of those that do.

(Edited to add that it's in general anyway and applies to groups, not individuals, in case that wasn't clear

)

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Zaphod Kotobide zOMGWTFPME! Join date: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 2,087	06-08-2008 18:28 To add to my contribution to this post, there is not a single square inch of land in use on the grid which Linden Lab doesn't doesn't profit from. Follow the money. It flows uphill. _____________________ From: Albert Einstein Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them.
bigmoe Whitfield I>3 Foxes Join date: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 459	06-08-2008 21:15 were all equal and money can prove who the . well I wont say it
Kitty Barnett Registered User Join date: 10 May 2006 Posts: 5,586	06-09-2008 04:28 From: Zaphod Kotobide Indeed it is. Let's get down to brass tacks though. It's not about supporting Linden Lab vs supporting the economy, it's about the very real and tangible ways in which non-premium Residents support Linden Lab by supporting the Resident economy. I could agree if you'd said "payment verifieds", but "non-premiums" includes the overwhelming "no payment info" majority who will never spend as little as $0.01 on SL. Shuffling L$ around in world is essentially worthless since most businesses sell L$ to cover tier, so only exchanging US$ for L$ has any economic value . No payment infos don't contribute to that in any way at all. From: someone However, Basic account holders do pay a tier to private estate owners which is relatively competitive with the tier that those estate owners pay Linden Lab. In most cases, even slightly higher, as value is added to private estate dealings. You can't count profit for the sim owner towards how much you're paying for anything. I pay about $90/month for 1/2 openspace and 9792m² of estate land, but LL only sees $66.5/month of that, the other $23.5/month goes to the respective sim owners and doesn't count for anything. I probably spend another $50-100/month shopping, but since that's just going to pure profit for the store I'm buying it at, it's again something that doesn't count for anything. So out of the $140-190/month I spend on SL, I can claim that $66.5/month goes to LL (and my yearly premium) but that's it. The rest simply goes into other residents' pockets and does nothing to contribute to the platform.
Imnotgoing Sideways Can't outlaw cute! =^-^= Join date: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 4,694	06-09-2008 04:55 From: Kitty Barnett ...So out of the $140-190/month I spend on SL, I can claim that $66.5/month goes to LL (and my yearly premium) but that's it. The rest simply goes into other residents' pockets and does nothing to contribute to the platform. That idea sounds fine until you crash into someone like me. I don't buy L$ at all. Yes, I did go premium lately... But, a basic member with spending habits like you describe would be making contributions way beyond anything I would ever consider. (o.o) Plus, SL is it's own economy and is in need of catalysts. Even the act of moving currency from one to the next is a form of profitability. Most free world economies work that way. You can't have everyone "printing their own money". (=_=) NEWay, premium membership @ $75 per year is not a lot of money to work with per-user. Especially when most of it is paid back in the stipend and the first 512M of land tier. In the end, we're paying for the maintenance fee of the server farm we're beating to death on a daily basis. I don't see how that entitles anyone to special treatment in the open world system that's out here in front of us. (=_=)y _____________________ Somewhere in this world; there is someone having some good clean fun doing the one thing you hate the most. (^_^)y http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ferguson/54/237/94
Zaphod Kotobide zOMGWTFPME! Join date: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 2,087	06-09-2008 05:36 My point is, the person you pay your monthly rental fees to pays Linden Lab for the islands they parcel up and "resell" to renters. Non premium renters of those island parcels make up a sizeable segment of that market, and the majority of what they pay their landlords is paid right back to Linden Lab in the form of monthly island fees. No, spending $L in world doesn't necessarilly directly benefit Linden Lab beyond what they might make on Lindex trading, but the contribution to the economy does benefit them nonetheless. Value doesn't necessarily equate directly to a revenue stream for Linden Lab. A healthy marketplace, full of customers who like to spend money, is a win/win. "No Payment Info".. obviously doesn't do much economically. From: Kitty Barnett I could agree if you'd said "payment verifieds", but "non-premiums" includes the overwhelming "no payment info" majority who will never spend as little as $0.01 on SL. Shuffling L$ around in world is essentially worthless since most businesses sell L$ to cover tier, so only exchanging US$ for L$ has any economic value . No payment infos don't contribute to that in any way at all. You can't count profit for the sim owner towards how much you're paying for anything. I pay about $90/month for 1/2 openspace and 9792m² of estate land, but LL only sees $66.5/month of that, the other $23.5/month goes to the respective sim owners and doesn't count for anything. I probably spend another $50-100/month shopping, but since that's just going to pure profit for the store I'm buying it at, it's again something that doesn't count for anything. So out of the $140-190/month I spend on SL, I can claim that $66.5/month goes to LL (and my yearly premium) but that's it. The rest simply goes into other residents' pockets and does nothing to contribute to the platform. _____________________ From: Albert Einstein Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them.
Kitty Barnett Registered User Join date: 10 May 2006 Posts: 5,586	06-09-2008 05:49 From: Imnotgoing Sideways That idea sounds fine until you crash into someone like me. I don't buy L$ at all. Yes, I did go premium lately... But, a basic member with spending habits like you describe would be making contributions way beyond anything I would ever consider. (o.o) My point was that "I spend xxx on SL so I deserve yyy" doesn't really work out, cause only a - potentially small - fraction of $xxx actually ends up with LL, other residents get the lion's share. You're premium but don't buy L$, someone else isn't premium but buys L$, there's no way to figure out "which is better". Both contribute, just in different ways and the amount of US$ that you're spending doesn't really come into it. Even "payment info on file" is perfectly fine because someone at least has the means to buy something if they ever find a reason to and - when it still actually worked - few people seemed to have "on file" stick anyway, most ended up with "used" sooner or later. I just don't agree with a customer base where more than half declares itself unwilling to even consider spending money on it in whatever form, especially when it's at the expense of those that do. (Edited to add that it's in general anyway and applies to groups, not individuals, in case that wasn't clear )

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