Graphics cards 101 (need a list)

Ok you techies out there........I gots a question.

I'm doing a class on Monday on the Environment Editor 'how to' and so on.... but I really need to be able to provide an up to date list of the types of graphics cards that WILL run the windlight features. Not necessarily high end....but a list of those that are going to run it well enough to do the basics with sky & water settings. Cause I'm sure that's going to be one of the first questions from folks....and I needs to be prepared. Right now I'm running with nVidia8800 and it works beautifully....... but that's the only type I'm familiar with and I know there's more.

Also, I'm unfamiliar with Mac....so I need to know what Mac users would need as well.

thanks peeps

The system requirements page at http://secondlife.com/support/sysreqs.php might be of some use. The ones on the right in the recommended column, and they are listed in increasing order of performance.

The list is not up to date with current card models.

Here's the list of models from nVidia's product page: http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_family.html

200 Series
GeForce GTX 295
GeForce GTX 285
GeForce GTX 285 for Mac
GeForce GTX 280
GeForce GTX 275
GeForce GTX 260
GeForce GTS 250

100 Series
GeForce GTS 150*
GeForce GT 130*
GeForce GT 120*
GeForce G100*

9 Series
GeForce 9800 GX2
GeForce 9800 GTX+
GeForce 9800 GTX
GeForce 9800 GT
GeForce 9600 GT
GeForce 9600 GSO 512
GeForce 9600 GSO
GeForce 9500 GT
GeForce 9400 GT
GeForce 9400 mGPU
GeForce 9300 mGPU

8 Series
GeForce 8800 GTS
GeForce 8800 GT
GeForce 8800 GT for Mac
GeForce 8600 GTS
GeForce 8600 GT
GeForce 8500 GT
GeForce 8400 GS

The above is not a list of what's good for Windlight, just the complete list from the nVidia page./

From what I read, the numbering system changed a bit with the 9xxx models, such that the 9500 is much like the previous generation's 8600, but using "smaller circuitry". So in the 8xxx you'd want the 8600 and above, while in the 9xxx series you'd want the 9500 or above.

8600 and 9500 are commonly recommended minimums for decent performance on a budget. If not on such a tight budget, 8800 or 9800, or for more dollars, something from the 200 series.

The 200 series is newer and too new for me to have picked up on the model numbers. I would assume they are listed roughly in order from better to worse in performance. [note: this next sentence is wrong, but I'll leave it here for history's sake] I would expect the 250 to be similar to the 9500, and so on for the other numbers, but that's just a guess. [preceding sentence is wrong, see better info in another post below]

The 100 series, I've probably read something about, but I don't really remember it at all.

I can't use any of the cards I would want without needing to replace the power supply, which means more work, more trouble picking one out, more money.

In the older cards, 6600 or higher or 7600 or higher, if money is tight, but if not, 6800 or 7800.

Newegg is one good play to shop. Pricegrabber.com is another.

For those who can handle the risk ebay can offer some good prices on used cards.


Well, enough of that.

Thanks Sue~!

This is a good start....but I know nVidia is not the only maker of g-cards so I'm hoping to get a few more options....especially for Mac users that might be asking~!! But this definitely helps. Hopefully one of you guys out there has good experience with windlight and can offer some decent options for folks. Mas appreciated~!!!

The 200 series is the top of Nvidia's line. The GTS250 is the card previously known as the 9800GT+, which was pretty close to the top of the 9000 series. The GTX cards are a step up, the GTX260 being the bottom of that line, the GTX295 the top.

The 100 series are OEM cards, they're sold to computer manufacturers for use in systems. You may be able to buy just the card somewhere, but they aren't meant for retail sale. The only ones I've ever seen are in new iMacs. SL does not recognize them, but will run on them.

As long as the Mac has an Nvidia 8000 or 9000 series graphics adapter, it'll handle Windlight fine. The more recent Macs with an ATI Radeon HD2600 or newer graphics adapter will do Windlight fine.

The Macs that will have trouble are either older models (PowerPC) or ones that use Intel graphics adapters (older Macbooks, Mac Minis previous to the current model, some older iMacs).

Another factor to figure in is the physical size of the card.

"Slimline" desktops, the small kind, may require the use of half height cards, and some of those will require some kind of adapter. So before you buy an upgrade card you need to make sure if your box will handle a full height card or not a get a card that will fit. Having to use a half height card will greatly reduce your choice of cards and may increase the price for equivalent performance. The slimline desktops have less room for airflow so heat may be a problem requiring more fans which they might not have much room for.

It is a bit dated, but this Blog article from Nov 2007 gives you a really good idea of how all but the newest graphics cards fare on SL.

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2007/11/16/typical-frame-rate-performance-by-graphics-cardgpu

Wow, they really make those?

I haven't ever seen half-height cards for retail sale. I mean, *ever*. I've seen Compaq- or Dell- branded half-height cards in 1U and 2U servers, but even then not for a long time... they were a kind of intermediate step before they started putting cheap video on the motherboard by default.

Just to add to the NVidia list above, my desktop (running Vista x64) currently has an NVidia 7900GTO and it runs SL beautifully, including WindLight (if without the opportunity to test the new shadow rendering - had to test that on my more recent laptop).

So it looks like the NVidia 79xx cards can cope with WindLight.

Unfortunately that chart is pre-Windlight, and a whole lot of cards have come out since 2007.

I don't have any problem with my gf7900 nor with my previous gf7600.

That chart is really dated, and it's pre-Windlight. Most of the cards on the list aren't widely available anymore.

They do make and sell them. Unfortunately they do not mark any difference in the box, nor do they give the physical dimensions. I had that 7900 in my machine for an extra year because of that. Went to the store and excitedly picked up an 8800 GT only to be extremely disappointed when I opened the box and found it was so think that it took up the space of 2 PCI-e slots. The next year and the store had an 8800 GT, same specs and it only took up one slot.

I learned my lesson though and built my own system with a full size tower with 7 fans in it. The case should handle whatever I throw at it for the next few years.

I've ordered and waiting on an ATI 4890 which I read is very good for the price and competes with Nvidia's top cards . Thought I would give ATI a try this time, my current 8600gts is not bad for SL but a little wimpy for vista/dx10 games.

-w

A review of the current top 16 graphics cards is here:

http://internetgames.about.com/od/hardware/tp/tpvideocards.htm

Rock

You've got a good one there whyroc, the 4890 is Radeon's fastest single-GPU card at the moment , and there are only two twin-card solutions that are better (the GTX295 and the 4870 x2). See the review I posted previously.

Make sure the power supply is up to the job though,

Rock

Nvidia graphics adapters seem to have fewer issues with Second Life, and perform better with it than ATI graphics adapters.

Tom's Hardware Guide publishes a "Best Graphics Cards for the Money" article monthly, and at the end is a heirarchy chart of cards.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-price,2323-6.html

For people who ask if they can risk buying a top card:
I have 2 Nvidia GeForce GTX 295 in my computer.

It runs great.

SL won't allow me to use the full capacity of the cards, the maximum I can set in SL for texture cache memory is 512MB.
I have much more available, but still, with every possible setting to max I go over 100 fps sometimes.

And for the people who still wonder if there are issues with the newer Nvidia drivers: I always use the latest drivers, and never have a problem with them.

I am now waiting for SL to let me set more texture memory...


Strange... I have been trying to reply to this post as Zuleika Deere, and get errors every time. But now I log in as my alt it works

You mean single-width versus double-width.

I thought Suzanne was talking about half*height* cards. Half-sized PCI slot bracket and everything. There's actually a standard for them... they used to be seen in thin servers and... now I think about it... I *had* seen them in some Compaq desktops, but never for retail sale and they quickly disappeared when on-board GPUs got cheap.

Sorry for the extra post. This is a test. I think I found why I couldn't reply earlier.

I own an old Radeon 9550 card like that (third-party manufacturer, not ATI itself). The card itself is half-height; as shipped it comes with a full-height back plate but also came with a half-height replacement plate.

I wuvs my GTX 285. It was *not* inexpensive, but I needed a good card for 3D modeling and animation (Maya). Compared to workstation cards like the Quadros, it wasn't too awful. I had some video issues with Maya at first, but they seem to have updated the driver and it works fine now. Photoshop CS4 also works fine, but I have to go in and enable Open GL for it.

It's a bit overkill for SL, but I do like wandering about in Ultra

Possibly the term I should have used is "low profile".

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=48&Description=&Type=&N=2010380048&srchInDesc=low+profile&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=

A Dell Vostro 200 (slim) is one example of a machine that wants a low profile video card.

I believe a number of the "cute little" desktops one sees at places like Office Depot that seems so nice when you've grown tired of giant hulking boxes on your desk require low profile video cards, as well as abnormal power supplies, such that they aren't really desirable for Second Life, because of the limited supply of cards and you can't assume you can find a more powerful power supply that will fit.

I think, but am not sure, that the Dell Inspiron-S (the sleek desktops) models require low profile video cards.

Oh wow, I guess there's no idea so bad that SOMEONE won't perpetuate it. Figures it'd be Hell Computer.

All the low profile desktops I've seen that take retail cards just use normal height cards installed sideways on a riser board.

Ok......the train has totally gone off the tracks here.....


All I wanted was a LIST of recommended cards that will run windlight....so when I do my class tonight, I will be able to answer that question and provide folks with some options. I'm sure I can go back thru this thread and weed thru YOUR discussion....and find the answers....but man you guys gotta focus! Focus people FOCUS LMAO It's like A.D.D. is a forum passtime. (but I do love you guys lol)