Age Verification and Europe

Ive been sat recently looking at a lot of the forum posts about age verification and the demise of casions and ageplayers.

A lot of the US players are stating that its against the bill of rights etc. where there is an interpretation.. note INTERPRETATION that freedom of expression and freedom of speech is deemed as "freedom to do what ya like and freedom to stay anominous about it" I note that this is not actually freedom but in fact Anarchy.

Linden Labs reserve the right to do what they like to who tey like the MINUTE they log on. The fact that they change the TOS and you click OK ... means that you will comply. I have readily accepted that when I log on to SL I am doing so at LL graces, I dont own the code, I dont own the servers, I dont own the client or the ISP connection from there end to my end. All I do is have a licence to use under there TOS.

Now with that in mind I do note that Linden Labs are using a US data mining company for age verification while might be totally ok in the US to do so, it is actually against the Data protection act in the UK. I have no reservations giving my personal information over to a company that is complient to the UK law as they have very stringent regulations as to what they can and cannot do with your data. I think that the Lindens are looking at what systems are in place in each country for age verification in order to comply with those regulations.

Now I know there has been uproar about what the "indevidual" feels is acceptable as to what they do in SL .... in reality ... its what LL feels is acceptable in thier platform. The fact that almost all comunication has been closed shows you that they arnt really interested in what is essentially your squabbles.

If you REALLLLLLLY want to fight for a cause then lets fight for the right to have a sim where you can move two feet without bumping into spinning LAND FOR SALE 16sqm of Porn advertising parcels or land barons jumping on peoples mistakes.

Theres so much rich contect in SL ... and i MEAN rich content.... when the designers have DESIGNED there place.... a mall that has as much work put into the asthetics of the building rather than just a megaprim box with tiny shops for rent. Or Clubs that are empty unless they are filled with flesh rotting camping zombies.

What I would LIKE to see in SL are communities ... wether they be Gor or Furries or other im not really fussed but the fact that there is getting less and less interation on a community scale is against everything that SL was supposed to be about.

What MOST people get out of SL is the ability to be "somebody else" but in reality.... what they get is the "Real" them.... ether its kiddy fiddling or gorean BDSM or just like dressing up as a furrie.... I accept many different thoughts on what YOU find is acceptable to YOU, the same way that I appreciate peoples views about what is acceptable to them about me.

I see the death of SL not being the corporate islands ... or the gors .... furries etc .... or even Age Verification.. The death of SL will truly be when people STOP playing the game and are there to ONLY camp ... with 16 illeagal alts, Or there running bots to fleece noobs who are ignorant of the SL lack of a moral center. The lindesn cant comply with each countries law.... but they CAN comply with the majority law in order to get maximum coverage and if age verification is the way and means that THEY feels is going to accomplish those goals then thats there right as the creators of the platform ... the owners of the servers and the licencers to ask of you.

Ultimately ....

If you dont like how the lindens run the show ..... turn it off... becasue believe it or not ... all you REALLLLY are is a UUID, The real fantasy is that you have the right to ask LL to change.

other than that .... enjoy it ..... its there for you to create .. socialise... entertain and SL will evolve... get on or get off .... your choice


Marty

Actually, that's Sims Online.

But I do understand what you mean about the anonymity of SL and the internet in general tending to bring out the worst in people.

As a UK player myself I share your concerns about the Data Protection Act.

I have never understood why there is so little 'community' in SL. Maybe it's because you don't actually need other people to achieve anything here; in games like TSO and WoW, you really find it a struggle unless you can team up with other players to do quests and things especially once you get past the first few levels. Look in "Resident Websites", and everyone is making their own site, blog or something instead of helping an existing established site. Why is that? We'd love to have more people over at Stratics, posters, news reporters, content writers, photographers... anything... help us build a community you can be proud to be part of!

Broccoli
Stratics Second Life News Team

awww...

I was with you right up to the "love it or leave it stance". The fact they don't leave it shows they care enough to voice their concerns in the hope they may be addressed. Anyone who could find no redeeming features left long ago.

Gillian,

The fact that Im here ........ is enough to show that personmally im prepared to go through lag ...crashes .... etc .... im by no means suggesting that anybody should leave .... just that if itsa numbers game ... then people do really have a choice ... that that they are there BECAUSE of the possitives ... enough to suffer the negatives ... but if it gets unbearable that its brings you nothing but upset or anger ... then its time for the person to look at wether they are getting what they want out of the platform *s*

Integrity have a data processing centre in the UK. They must therefore be a licensed data controller. So no, it's not illegal for them to collect your data. It would be illegal for them to export it without your permission, but as a registered data controller in the UK, they will be aware of this.

Putting other issues aside (like whether we should trust Integrity, etc.) I think it's important to point this out. So many people have screamed "zOMG it's illegal in my country" in other threads that you'd think it will only be possible to legally verify in the US.

Hi Walker,

Again ...

Im not ashamed of what I do in SL or the fact that i play SL ... so I dont really mind giving up my details......

What I found horrible is the fact that the very same company provide voting info and stats on use etc ....

I find this to be against the data protection act ... and have no doubt that in the UK they MAY comply...

its no different to having a store loyalty card ...... you get a discount and they get your stats .... or even having sky MAKE you keep your phone line connected in order to recieve your viewing details etc ... but there ARE rules to such behavour. And I am sure that many countries are similar ... The lindens will only fail with Age Verification if they comply that the data can be transfered. You the indevidual hs the right to choose who you want to know about you. certainly in the UK ... and part of the DPA is the right for you to KNOW who knows what about you, So you could go to integrety and say .. I FORBID you to transfer or sell my data.

I notice that their US head office is in ... drum roll... San Francisco. I can't find any information about a UK office anywhere.

If I can't find out about them, why should I trust them?

Broccoli

Martin -

You don't even have to go that far. It's up to them to request formal permission from you, not the other way around. Lots of data controllers are in the marketing business, so it's very important to read the small print before establishing any relationship with Integrity at all. If their terms are unacceptable to me, I won't be verifying.

Apparently 80% of online gambling based in the UK uses them for age verification already which suggests they are certainly legit here..... (source: FT).

it is mentioned on their site somewhere, and I assume they will be identifying their whereabouts and terms and conditions at the point of verification. if not, sod 'em. me no comply.

how far should we go if identity verification is done via the web? do a traceroute on the server and lookup the IP to make sure it's in blighty? ensure the form on the webpage isn't sending data to a different (overseas) server? i'm so paranoid about this company that yes, I will do that, if I end up going through with it.

i heard about that but can't find a single UK gambling site using them. i don't suppose anybody knows of one? i'd like to go through the signup process..and see how their verification procedure compares to the awful Bud TV.

I'd suggest "understandibly cautious" rather than "paranoid".

I too would like to know of some of their UK 'clients' and do some research myself. Just like we did when Zee Linden appeared on the scene.

Broccoli

just on a personal note though *lol* ....

As its very unlikely that I will frequent such places that NEED age verification its debateable that i will go through with it.

but as I said in other posts ...

Do we really mind just validating WHO we are online.. allthough I do agree to the point the CC details SHOULD be enough and that Indetity fraud is a big issue everywhere these days ... even in house ..with the kids using parents credit details etc.

<Maybe we should ALL look at our own personal security and what we do with out old bills etc.

Cest le vie

Once introduced, there are many reasons that verification will become essential even for people that have absolutely zero interest in 'adult material' in SL.

Those that run developer directory listed companies, for example, to show that they are traceable and trustworthy, for example.

I detest the thought that anyone who verifies is automatically labelled as interested in accessing or partaking in "pixel porn".

Broccoli

I am American but am not comfortable with giving out SS# (even last 4 digits) to just anyone. With the last 4 it is fairly trivial to figure out the rest. With the full number identity theft becomes a serious possibility. I understand that those in other coutries with tougher laws regarding personal data face a rougher situation but the fact is for this American this company is pretty darn worrying.

I am NOT against verifying ages of SL players. I can't see any real purpose in verifying thier identities either, or limiting how many alts can be verified. I can only assume LL has a good reason for both that they have not chosen to tell us (bothersome in itself).

Fact is LL has dropped this verification plan on us with far to little information given. When asked to clarify they have pointedly ignored most of our questions and simply restated the inadequate info already given. Makes me a little nervous.

I have already shut down my one adult business (gay animations) which was very sad for me as it was started years ago to provide tasteful and safe (ie if someone experimenting saw these here then tried them in RL they would not be injured) animations for men. Now those animations will not be available anywhere leaving gay men very little choice in world. I did this because right now I just can't see myself getting verified. So far I see alot of vague statements and no real assurances that our information will not be sold.

This is not just a European problem. Many people including Americans are not at all comfortable with this company.

Sadly that's another issue of LL's making. Were age verification required for access to all of the adult grid then there could be no chance of people being unfairly judged simply because they verified. But apparently we will only need to prove we are over 18 to access some parts of an exclusively over 18 grid and not others, which leads to implication of verification being solely for access to those areas.

Maybe instead of granting more access to verifieds they should restrict it to non-verifieds and keep them on PG land, much less stigma to be attached to that and people who want to verify for legitmate business reasons or simply to guarantee they are mingling with 18+ wouldn't feel unfairly labelled. It also has the advantage of ensuring that any who are under 18 (and haven't simply circumvented the verification process as is bound to happen) won't even be exposed to "mature content" let alone "adult" (whatever the difference may end up being). Just a thought.

Since we're all supposed to be over 18 anyway I'd like to think we're all mature enough to not label one another in that way but sadly that's just wishful thinking on my part, the threads on these boards can testify to that with ease.

Some might take it as a funny stance coming from me but I actually agree with this. I have 0 problem being restricted to PG sims if I refuse to verify. It IS as good solution to the labeling issues that will come when this goes in place. As it is now you are sorta d++ned if you do and D++ned if you don't. If you verify you are a pervert and if you don't you are underage. I'd bet neither is true in most cases.

Hmmmm...... Pervert if you verify, Gender Faker if you don't Voice Chat, Second Class Citizen if you don't "create", any other tags we can slap on each other?

That's what really saddens me... labeling someone because (insert situation here). I realize that's infected humanity forever, but it still saddens me. There are so many reasons why people don't wish to (insert activity here).

BUT, the flipside is that it's easier to find out who is potentially a good chum

... must wake up.

I do. Our home region is "M" rated, and we chose it because it was a good plot of land with great neighbours rather than it's region rating. Under your idea, I'd have to verify just to access home. As I previously stated, verifying I am over 18 is not a problem to me except for what it implies I am interested in, and I certainly don't want every hormonally challenged teen (who is probably unverified and shouldn't be here in the first place) thinking I'll be 'easy'.

If they'd never got rid of signup verification... most of these discussions wouldn't have been happening.

I still reckon all this verification lark is connected with the forthcoming Playboy Island ... although I remember the "Suicide Girls" coming in with similar trumpeting, and where did they all disappear to?

Broccoli

Not my idea Gillian suggested it No it isn't a perfect solution and alot of people would end up selling land and reshuffling to PG. That would be its own kind of nightmare. But at least it is a solution because I quite frankly see madatory verification or restriction to PG in the not so distant future. Typical LL pattern. Intro a voluntary program, wait awhile, make it mandatory.

And I agree with you they should have never gone open registration in the first place. But then again I was against the 1 free account thing when they started that about a year before open registration too.

It's been said a number of times that being unverified will not keep you from mature sims. The new age stuff is per-parcel, not per-sim.

Well, it's a good thing that the adult flag will be per-parcel and not per-sim. Non-verified people should have no problems (aside from the normal SL weirdness with TPs and such) getting to non-adult parcels on mature sims.


You don't know that. I think that it wouldn't have come so quickly but it would have come eventually

Until that parcel is considered too close to the adult sims, which is something LL haven't ruled out.

The only reason we are on Mature land is that we couldn't find a decent plot on PG land, having spent several months looking.

There is far too little "PG" land available anywhere on the grid, and land is way way overpriced. If there was some way that "non commercial" land could be cheaper than "commercial" land (say, you had to pay an additional fee to be able to active any finance related transaction on your land) to separate those of us who are here for fun from those who are here to make money, that would be a big help.

Broccoli