Bots hammering our TP system at 23 sims per minute

The number 23 is what I got spammed by, and may be around the maximum, if you notice when you TP you actually often do so in under 5 seconds, you can get chat and hear sounds from the new sim before your TP bar dissappears. My land has no land for sale or camping, and pretty low traffic as the bots don't stay long enough to ad to it. Items are for sale at mine and my tennants, and some parcels are listed under search.
I've only ever seen a bot a couple of times on my 1/2 sim worth of land too, but get a heck of a lot of visitors that who are in and out so fast they don't rezz.
What I worry about is the percentage of bots vs residents will keep rising out of control, they don't help the economy, real residents with credit cards bringing money in world help the economy. Even if a stationary ruthed traffic bot uses 1/20th the resources of a resident it's negated by the fact they are running over 20 of them.
I'm not saying to remove bots at all, or restrict their abilities, just stop people cheating and sucking resources by running hundreds of them anonmously.

Exactly, so why does LL continually insist on a huge resident count? They`re not "other virtual worlds". They need to chill out.

Re- "Aiden Sigal:
In a world where the populations of other virtual worlds are measured in millions and LL is pushing to bring in even more new residents"

Count this as the obligatory, weekly, bots are ruining the world whining thread.

Old news and boring as hell.

And it'll keep happening as the percentage of real residents keeps dropping
We all know not being able to login or TP on weekends gets boring.................
Good to see people caring about issues they claim not to care about

Then, I'm curious, why did you bother to open the thread?

Unfortunately those who profess to 'care' about the problem are, IMHO, elitists that want only Premium Account in SL. I personally spend quite a bit in SL as a non-premium and thinks more pressure needs to be placed on LL to fixed the system instead of whining week after week after week in the forums and nothing being done to actually solve the root problem, the grid and the client themselves.

And those that profess "not to care" about problems just keep blocking everything that every one else suggests and suggest everyone just shuts up at takes their reaming happily.

Fortunately I don't feel I fit into that category as I actually provide a constructive solution to the problem, all be it a more complex one.

For the record, I'm premium since October 2005. I don't see bots as the root cause of grid problems. These problems with tps failing and not being able to log in have been here since my day one in this game. It's system load problems.........hasn't changed one iota either. Weekends are always the time when stuff breaks........hasn't changed. Bots are fairly new in SL. But the problems haven't gotten any worse........in fact they really have gotten a bit better in the 2 1/2 years I've been around. I don't get tired of the threads about bots...........I do get concerned when someone pulls numbers out of their hat and presents them as facts.

That's may concern. No solution will ever come about with false or questionable "facts.

Bots can teleport in less time than that, at least mine frequently can, particularly when they are simply teleporting into the adjoining sim, where they already have a child agent registered and active.

When's the last time you created an alt? Do you remember how big a difference there is in the teleport time between an alt in newb clothes with no attachments and an empty inventory and your two-year-old main? If not, I invite you to try it. It's even more pronounced with bots.

I admit 23 TP per minute sounds a little high, but I wouldn't feel all high and mighty enough to blast the OP and keep spouting phrases like "questionable facts". Your own statements as to why it's not possible sound questionable and ignorant of how bots work. At the very least, you don't appear to have any first-hand knowledge to back up some of your arguments.

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Largely because they built no controls into it, for much of anything, for example unlimited object counts......landmarks, textures, notecards, abandoned pieces......they can never have enough database power, nor asset servers.

With 4 sims per server, it really is instanced like say EQ or WoW.

As others have said, it would be possible for them to redflag continuous TP's, or in Tegg's case (waves to Tegg) a continuous stream of outgoing emails....if they had built controls into it for the obvious, or, if they assigned performance management people to implement it.

Age verification means little or nothing at all. They have about as much of my info as I would ever trust them with......premium, maybe, but then again it bothers me little if I am excluded from traffic counts despite putting plenty of dollars and lindens into the collective coffers. When you are here long enough there isn't much excuse for being unable to find something.

Removing traffic as relevant and refining search function would be a great step. Business owners can still place traffic scripts in their shops to measure their consumers......

The idea of an uncontrolled virtual world is great, but well, undoable if you want people in general to all enjoy it and spend money in it en masse.

I love all the experts in these forums...........I really do

Yes, I have two alts. Last one created mid December, 2007. And yes I know without attachments I can tp faster. But 23 times in one minute? I don't think it's possible......even an automated bot. And talking about facts, Mr Bot runner, if the bots are so lean and mean to tp faster than lightning how come they put such a load on the grid? That's my argument. We have a thread whining about bots taking up all the resourses of the grid, ruining life for real avatars.......and I've yet to see any actual facts presented. Just opinions.....yours included. LL has had these exact same issues when bots were not even here.

You cannot fix a problem with opinions. I do not believe the bots overload the grid. It's the actual real avatars with all those attachments you spoke so knowledgably about, spinning their cameras around looking at all there is to look at, walking, flying, chatting, IMing, and purchasing things. The automated bots just do their stuff not contributing much at all to the load.

Now, I guess I should leave this thread alone.........since I'm going against the grain here I'm going to get slammed for voicing my opinions on the subject. I think that's what the mention of the "elitists" here was really about. There are quite a few here, you know.

Exactly what I meant. It all reminds me of a saying, 'remember, those of you that think you know everything are really pissing off those of us that do'.

And one more for good measure, 'don't confuse the issue, or this thread and ones like it, with facts, feeding the trolls is strictly forbidden'.

In theory, and I am not gonna even pretend I am an expert, they are using resources that need to register with each tp, as well as adding incrementally to network traffic.....idle bots will hold resources and not free them....with any degree of script use adding to cpu.....

If you put all that in one location, it affects the sim/server, which could then affect the other sim/servers in the rack, and down the line......figuring in transactions coming and going from the sim, items purchased by non bots, someone building a house nearby.....they will all have common pipelines to talk to one another where things will back up and snowball.....

I don't think bots are the whole problem, but a problem within the whole thing, myself.

All facts are questionable, want a copy of the 320 emails from LindenLab I recieved over 3 hours detailing each sim the bot IM'd me from? There were 1365 orginally but I didn't download them all and deleted some.
It interesting it seems they travel diagonally across sims as they send IMs, but the sims they jump to in order may be on the opposite side of the continent, not close to ech other at all.

The amauteurs and alts are funnier.
Hmm here we have a supporter of infinite numbers of bots "expert" who doesn't own bots telling a bot owner what bots can't do and that the emails I have are fake? Yeah, I'm siding with a botmaker on this, how "elitist" can I get on an issue about bots?
ROFL, maybe you prefer to share camping with bots or prefer bots as customers but I don't. Is I tiered down and said the same thing, I'd still be eliist I suppose. Or are you just someone's alt who doesn't want to see their bot stable reduced to 4 or 5?
And seeing attachments are the real cause of all our problems how many is too many, is my 684 on the ARC still too high because I'm a furry?
This is not about banning bots, it's about reducing the unfriendly numbers hammering the grid.

Heh, I'm not a bot runner, I just make a couple of bots and happen to know how they work. You don't seem to know, so while my statements are as much opinion as yours, they are likely more informed opinions

Notice that I didn't say that they do "put such a load on the grid". I actually happen to believe as you do that bots don't overload the grid, or at least that it's not necessarily true. If the grid were properly scalable then we would have far less to blame on bots, in my opinion.

That's not to say that poorly-written and abusively-used bots *can't* contribute to load, I just don't think that's the most common case. I would argue that any bot that continually teleports and sends an IM, whether at 23 TPM or even significantly less, is not being exactly kind to the grid. I can't envision any such usage that's not intended to be abusive, come to think of it. But most bots really do very little at all during normal operation.

Doesn't mean you gotta get all nasty

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What about landbots?

/me is also on the list of people who thinks bots have as much impact as many seem to believe. I think having LL crack down on, say, abusive temp rezzers would have more impact than getting rid of traffic bots..

TempRezzers certainly are open to much abuse too and also need their usage controlled, but I suspect they only affect the sims they are in and surrounding sims.LL will probably have an upgrade planned so the grid can support over 50k but should their reasons for be doing so be so the grid can support higher proportions of bots?

I am not as informed about landbots as I should like to be. I ran a single landbot for about a month back in July/August '06 (before anyone else seemed to have any), and haven't even touched one since then. It would seem the biggest impact that they have is continually running searches, and I know that Linden Lab has actually implemented many system changes in that regard since I last tried it. I don't even know at this point if that is still the primary way that the successful landbots work, though I can't imagine how they would work otherwise.

If it is, then I would say that in that sense they could be heavier on the system than an "average user" in terms of raw bandwidth, and possibly whatever processing is necessary to serve up the data (which I should hope was cached, but that might be beside the point). I just don't have enough knowledge of the current generation to be useful, though, sorry.

But before bots came, the major land flippers would aggressively refresh search manually. I remember one time Jimbo was changing the name of a parcel listing that was just outside of my bot's auto-purchasing limits so that it would always come to the top of search but not actually get purchased by anyone, and was changing the parcel name every few seconds to create a sort of marquee message to other land-flippers.

He invited whoever saw the message, split up over several consecutive searches, to send him 1L and he'd send whoever did so 10L. If I remember right, I was one of three people that got 10L It was a fun game, and aptly demonstrated that at that time there were humans watching the search listings and feverishly refreshing every couple of seconds. Dunno how bots are worse than that, really.

The way temp-rezzers work, it is pretty easy to imagine how they could cause a large load on the system : They continually create and destroy assets. I don't know if temp-on-rez objects even create an asset database entry, or if there are special cases to optimize for temp objects specifically, but I think it's logical to assume that the simulator code is optimized to deal with a limited number of objects and that prim limits are not completely arbitrary.

There were problems not so very long ago with temp-rezzers causing older non-temp items to be returned to the owner's inventory in some cases when prim limits were exceeded, remember that? That indicates to me that the server code was aggressively trying to manage object counts, and while that bug is a whole 'nuther issue, if nothing else it would seem to demonstrate the importance Linden Lab puts on managing prim counts.

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Maybe I'm only "professing to care" as said but the thing is I know I don't know everything and admit it, but you just implied you think you do know everything, not me, so reread your sayings before posting them.
And for good measure, seeing that seems to be a good thing, "If you got more real facts showem"

Did we break the record online this weekend I saw 64500 something earlier?

i don't know of any game that has an honest number in the millions there are a few who claim tht but they are most asuradly cooking the books

I never looked at the numbers, but it certainly *seemed* like we broke something, maybe it was the record

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where did you get these figures? or were you just exxagerrating to make your point?