Ad Farmers & Extortionists

careful Talarus you almost are coming down against data miners here


I wonder how the virtual world would change if the minimum plot size were 512? Then no one could afford land in every sim.

I was thinking something along those lines...

Basically, the minimum you could own in any one sim would be like 256 or 512sqm. You could parcel it however you liked, but you had to either sell it all, or keep at least that much.

Seems like so far it's only two. It takes quite a lot of resources to maintain this much land. ~2500sims * 16sqm = 40,000sqm of tier. Not to mention whatever is spent to buy the land which might amount to around L$4,000,000. I doubt the concept will catch on.



That's one way to put it. Another is that it allows us to teleport bots in without disturbing the other residents of the sim. I'd say most of my use of these parcels is for data mining and as a gift to the community of scripters who might need such a resource. As well as w-hat I forgot to mention we also contribute to http://neighbours.maxcase.info/index.php.

I know people don't like data mining and I can understand why but of course my opinion differs and I'm not going to act like it's shameful or somehow wrong. Collections of data like this, especially when shared openly, are extremely beneficial to the entire community.

You can't ban bots from sims since, like everyone else, they can simply teleport in 700m up and be totally unaffected. Or teleport into a nearby sim and cam over.

I can't think of one scenario where 'data mining' can benefit me.

Therefore your assumption of it benefitting the 'entire community' is invalid.

No doubt hundreds, thousands of others would agree with me on this, making your viewpoint even more shaky - even though "entire" only needs one person to disagree to make your wrong.

"Most" or "Many" - or perhaps even '"Some" might have been a better qualifier in your sentence.

Care to share some of your so-called "benefits" of data mining so we can prove you further wrong?

Well haven't you figured out how to not open a thread yet? Need a mod to shelter you?

Well, there was one of you, now there are two. If there is a perception that there is money to be made, or something of significant value to be gained, I severely doubt you will be the only two. Might not be 1,000 of you, or 100, but how many 16sqm pockmarks in a sim is too many? Especially if few have policies to swap pockmarks so they are less conspicuous.



..seems to be a contradiction to..



If you can simply teleport in 700m up and be totally unaffected, you likely won't be disturbing the other residents of the sim, either, which was basically my point.



With 3 prims max, I don't see a whole lot of utility to scripters. 3 scripters get to take advantage, and that is it.



Well, as you should know, data is data. It can be used for good, and it also can be used for ill. For some kinds of data, obscurity is ultimately the best policy, which is why we are seeing more and more privacy laws enacted in RL which regulate the kinds of data which can be gathered, let alone mined. So, in effect, some forms of data gathering and mining ARE shameful AND wrong. I don't know if that is true in your case or not, but it definitely is not outside the realm of possibility.

You seem to like the concept of openness, and that is cool. Do you document anywhere the entirety of your data gathering and mining activities? If so, where? If not, why not?

Let SL grow bigger, 4096 individuals want a 16sqm plot in every region for their "data mining" and nobody can buy any land.

Not that it really matters, because their scripts would be lagging the sim to hell anyway, and nobody would be able to do anything even if they had land there.

I'm still waiting to hear of a 'legitimate benefit for everyone' for having a 16sqm parcel gathering "data" of some kind in every region.

Anyone?

I already gave you two
http://w-hat.com/name2key
http://neighbours.maxcase.info/index.php

But regardless, the /main/ purpose of my network is my own personal entertainment.

I do not want others having access to my avatar key without my express permission. Therefore that is not a legitimate reason.

I see no benefit for me as to knowing what other regions might be sharing any server I may have land on, or be visiting. You can't do a thing about it, so therefore I class that as fairly useless as well.

Try again.

As for what 'personal entertainment' you might get from annoying everyone, and adding unnecessary lag to every region on the grid... words fail me.

Your key is used as a sorting criterion by LL itself in public webspace... so unless you wish to drop out of world, anyone who knows your avatar name and searches (using Google or any other engine, I should imagine) for you on world.secondlife.com can isolate your key from the URL in a matter of seconds...

Sorry...

I'm also at a loss

What personal entertainment could possibly be achieved by having a 16M in every sim?

Unless keeping tabs on people is entertainment?

Actually, there's a third one that wants to own a 16m in every sim.. and that's an ad farmer. What sucks is the land ISN'T for sale or I or another who owns a large portion of the sim would have bought it out just to get rid of it. In this case we already know this individual uses the parcels for datamining and what kind.

If we could disable other parcel scripts from running on ours, that'd be great. There'd be nothing for them to data mine then.

I think more in terms of empire building in my case. I want to eventually get my shop up to supporting a mainland sim. I'm not likely to BUY a mainland sim that has several 16m cut out and not for sale either.. which means LL loses out, because I'm not wanting a private island either. I want mainland, because I want to encourage exploration as well as sales. I also would like organic growth, rather than buying from auction, because if I want to build a town, darn it, it's going to go from small to big just like any other town! I prefer to do things the hard way, because for me it's more fun!

If these pocket empires are willing to work with me when the time comes on that, I won't complain about them or their information collecting.

Elanthius, wouldn't it be better for scripters if you had more land in one or two sims than spread out? Ah, right, it's because you can. At least you're honest in that and what you are doing with it. I admit, it doesn't make sense to ME, but if it did, I'd probably be your competition

That's a completely unrealistic expectation. Your avatar key doesn't represent anything important, and everything knows about it or can get it. When you buy something from a vendor, your key is used to record the sale and deliver product. When you touch something to activate it, your key can be checked to see if you have access. When someone is wearing a scanner or radar, they use your key to get more information about you. Avatar keys are public knowledge, and there is no way to obscure that information, nor really should there be, otherwise SL comes grinding to a halt. Fortunately, there is little to no damage that can come from someone knowing your avatar key, so it really doesn't matter.

Name2Key databases are useful, and many businesses use them to contact their customers. However, they are becoming obsoleted with the new world search backend.



Yeah, gotta admit, that is mostly useless, since it changes often anyway. It is an interesting curiosity, but not much real utility.

Oh no. Don't *ever* buy adfarmer extortion land, unless it is close to market value. For every 16sqm ad plot you buy at an exorbitant rate, more pop up somewhere else. IE, if market rate is L$10/sqm, and you pay L$40/sqm for one 16sqm, then the adfarmer will go out and buy FOUR more or, worse, go and buy some larger plot and chop it up into more 16s.

No, the best policy is to just leave them. Surround them, obscure them, ridicule them. Make them irrelevant and let them choke on all that tier. Eventually, they dry up and blow away, and you have free land you just claim (if you surround it, that is) from Gov Linden.

Different people enjoy doing different things. What for some is boring, for others is delight. Data mining and organising is a delight for some - look at Google

For those who don't know, the Sim Neighbours project (which tracks what servers sims are on, and who they are sharing with) also has a nifty wearable probe that you can use to register sims as you go about your daily travels. I like to explore, so I wear one and register sims as I go.

And yes, this entertains me. Data collection really is entertaining for some people, though I'm not about to collect a parcel in every sim.

Elanthius, the only issue I have with anyone owning a 16 in every sim is that it encourages the landcutters to chop up more in every new sim, because they know they've got guaranteed buyers.

How come if you use a computer and gather data people it gets called something nice like

"Data collection" and "Data Mining"

Where in the real world it would get called "Being too nosy" and "Unable to mind your own business"

Unless I've been doing it wrong, it seems that an avatar that opts out of Search in their Profile doesn't get a listing in world.secondlife.com that reveals a key. Now, granted, there's about as much need to keep avatar keys private as I have need of a third nipple, but I think it's possible to keep them from being listed on the web.

And in my scripts I'd prefer to use llHTTPRequest of that web service so that they only obtain keys of avatars that have not restricted their information from Search--if only LL would stop making utterly insane "privacy" decisions about that web content (I'm referring here to Profile pictures for avatars that have not opted out of web Search, for which scripts now have to offer *another* level of "opt-out".) Why the hell in-world scripts can't just use content that's freely available to anyone on the globe simply baffles me.

Thank you Dave and Weedy for the land swap

My problem has been resolved still not sure of hte need for a prim with one script but oh well guess they do not see my need for a lot of things i do here in sl

I too have just asked and got a land swap with the Herbst's and their group. Weedy was very prompt to my request and easy to work with. Now about that eraser..... lol

In the real world, as distinct from a virtual world, it *is* called data mining. Perhaps it got that name because it's only since the advent of widespread computers, putting so much data onto them, and allowing the data to be accessed, that it's been possible to do it on a scale that merits the term 'data mining'.

Whether or not it's always useful, the act of doing it appeals to some people - as sheer enjoyment. I can't yet see a really useful reason for it in SL, but I can certainly understand how it would be an enjoyable hobby for some people.

Wouldn't it have been far better if Weedy had suggested a land swap in the first contact, instead of the cold demand to remove the prim? I hope that this thread isn't wasted, and that something is learned from it - Dave?

Are you deliberately taking me out of context? - I specifically made a distinction between the use in computers and "the real world"

I assume, from Dave's choice of not answering whether or not they could access their things on the 16m with the prim in place, that the answer is yes, and that whole thing was just about rights. All the stuff about how they do their best not to be disruptive was just hot air.

Could this be relevant?

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