Is there a SL resident run Union?

They may term it 'buying land', but you are doing nothing more than buying some server space to use for however long you continue to pay the "dues" (tier) and however long they continue to provide it. I'm pretty sure it is all clearly spelled out in the TOS that you have to agree to when you join SL. You do have a few rights, as Stroker has proven in court, but they are limited and it will cost you a pretty penny to attempt any litigation regarding such.

Actually I am against almost all forms of current unions in the US. They were needed once upon a time, but not so much anymore, IMO

This ^ Notable exceptions IMO are for Police and Fire Depts.

They are still needed I think, but you are right in that Unions today have become useless, corrupt and ineffective.

Heh.. Well.. Not for them either. =^-^=

I am.

Wah.. I'm going straight to hell for that one, ain't I? =^-^=

I'm a Union Man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR6l3r5BRTo

Not so much a matter of being opposed to the idea of Unions and votes as just having enough experience in this virtual world to know that trying to form a Union to force LL to do anything is about as likely to be effective as trying to smash down a brick wall using nothing but hand-blown soap bubbles. They have no LEGAL reason to pay any attention at all to what we say, and every legal backing to enforce their will on what is done on their servers.

I fully understand the actual value of L$, since I am a SL Developer who cashes out a real USD Profit every month, from my businesses in-world. But your Legislators and lawyers would be hard pressed to give much interest to a microcurrency that deals with transactions in the less than a dollar range in most cases.

Linden Lab holds all the cards in this one, and not just the Aces. It's their servers, and their virtual world, and though it makes lousy business sense, they seem quite willing to consider their customer base as of no more value than replacable cattle. Piss off this bunch with harsh changes and make them leave, and who cares, because there are more cattle lined up in the chute to replace them, who will never have known life in this virtual world as anything different.

They have NO viable competition yet for what they provide. Once viable and better run virtual worlds do start appearing, maybe then they will listen. But I doubt it. By then they will have changed business plans to selling the server software and licensing its use, and won't need this huge demo of what the software can do, any more.

I am.

I checked the records, and no, Hell is specifically keeping the unions out.

Why? Don't like the fact that kids no longer sweep chimneys or that people don't have to work 16 hours a day down the mine to earn a living?

Naw, they're just afraid I'll take over. =^-^=

I think that is a myth.

Wow, are you seriously going at me that way? I was not the only person that expressed that sentiment in this thread.

If the only perspective you can see is that which i just quoted above then you are not worth engaging on an intellectual level about the issue. Bait someone else.

Hmmm. Guilds were helpful in their time. Castes had their purpose. Buggies were useful. Etc.

most states in the U.S are right to work states..and as far as i know ..the guys i know in tennessee that work in mines still work long hours..and my dad made my brother clean the fireplace the other day..it's part of his allowance

It is definitely a myth. No such thing exists.

Cart... what? Sorry, never heard of it.

Oh right. Never mind. FWIW, I am in favor of SL civil onions.

I think by reading forums you may have got an exaggerated view of how often LL changes things.
LL is actually an extremely "hands off" government. In fact there is almost no government at all ! You simply buy your land, pay your monthly tier, are given land tools to deal with grievers (freeze/eject/ban/mute) and you most likely will never even see or interact with a linden.

Its only if your business involves something really obvious that an internet service provider would take an issue with that you are likely to be targeted :-

- internet gambling (illegal in the US)

- land extortion schemes that ruined the experience of thousands of other people (ad farms). I am glad to see them gone. It took the lindens YEARS before they finally reacted and expelled them.

- So called unregistered "banking" that was actually illegal ponzi schemes designed to steal money from people is banned. If you register your bank in RL then it is allowed in SL. Again a good decision by LL, as it prevents theft.

- Now porn is being moved off the mainland (but its fine on private islands and the new naughty mainland continent). Honestly did you really expect them not to do it eventually.

However I agree with you about the void sims that were intended for water.

Terry, I agree with you and can point you to the SL Democratic Movement (slDM) for more people that think there should be radical changes in the way the Second Life world and the users are controlled and governed by LL.

As you can see in this thread though, there are still many people who are fine with the “for any reason or no reason”-paradigm and fine with Linden Lab unilaterally changing the contract on multiple occasions. Even with “corporate property” that is for a large part created and sustained by the users. All people can come up with is that you can vote with your feet. For sure, that is a powerful message, but also a way to kill off SL (when done en masse).

I do think the users should have a decisive part in policy and decision making as well as rights (established in the Terms of Service, TOS) to emancipate and protect (individual) users.

That said, I also understand the aversion against a governing body in a representative “democratic” fashion and the dangers of that for minority interests. I do not think we should look towards user governance in such a manner, but rather towards horizontal structures that enable, empower and protect every individual user and very important, that enable meaningful “local” governance, away from the superficial practices it are now, due to SL TOS superseding it.

Therefor, the preface of the TOS should change towards enabling negotiation with user-base (and in effect necessitate structures and venues for meaningful deliberation and user governance/selfrule), away from unilateral contract changes by LL. Another prime target in the TOS for emancipation of the user is of course article 2.6, the “for any reason or no reason”-clause concerning your account (and 3.2b concerning your content). These articles have to change to open up the possibility of a reasonable “justice”-system, to protect the individual user against arbitrary banishment and deletion. To me, this seems reasonable for a product of a corporate entity that is for a large part created by its users, the Second Life world, through their considerable investments (in time, effort, skill, money etc).

There have been many groups that set of to campaign for more user governance and many that have had a very short lifespan. One of the problem I see with most of these groups is that they focus on representative democratic structures, parliamentary style, and never on a inclusive structure that empowers every individual user. Connected to the representative structures, these groups also often focus on specific groups/classes to have political power, like landowners, businesses etc, while never focusing on the entire user-base. But most importantly, many of these groups do not consider the TOS at all as important part in emancipating the user and thus campaign for structures that are superficial and dependent on the benevolence of LL.

As said, check out the sl Democratic Movement. A group of users that thinks about and campaigns for more true participatory user governance and consideration with and acknowledgment of the individual user and the interdependent nature of the relation LL has with the SL user-base.

Smoke

Yeah, while we're at it, let's get Microsoft to change theirs too!

Pep (Is this a school project?)

Ass

Hi,

It's been really good to keep reading all this. It's like the various faces of a thing, it even has an arse, isn't there always one, lol.

It does seem the bottom line is residents may gain some consideration through their big dollars and that is about it.

Smoke: Thanks for your post, I too am mostly unnerved by the changing goal posts if I have any thing more than play money involved. It does seem pretty unstable for investors.

Have you head the "Discuss the state of the economy" blog post on the front of the site with one of the Lindens, basically peoples dollars are slowing up big time. There was a discussion that followed and it was answered so evasively and almost seemed based on we will get through with nothing but positive thinking, which would be fine but for the real questions being ignored.

Cortex: Yes, you could be right in that I have joined in a very unstable phase of SL, but this AO stuff to me is just really silly. Just leave the kids on the Teen Grid and scan for pedo sex. Underneath, I think, it is most likely a way for a struggling company to enforce payment for AO which is the majority of SL. The gambling is still everywhere too. Granted it is a 1st and new concept in online gaming and it would be dam hard to work it all out and keep it making money.

The rules and LL profit aren't my main turn off, what I dislike is the way people are basically ripped off because of LL errors or needs.

I have kind of come to the conclusion that it's as Ceera and Desmond have said, if we get anything out of it, good luck to us all.

That said, I do really hope someone else does come up with a more solid framework for a game like this. There is so much potential. Someone mentioned "Open Life" a new game opening up currently, when I am back at my real puter I will look and report back.

Thanks so much for all the info and thoughts, I do feel I understand this kinda post modern scenario a lot more now, it's not so post modern after all, it's more of the same ol same ol life shit.

All the best guys!!!