Is there a SL resident run Union?

Hi,

Sorry if I am reposting, I posted this in the Linden Links by mistake and it seems lost (plus I am on an old Apple Cube today and can't work it very well)

Anyway I was just about to buy my first land, I was taking it very seriously too, part genuine investment and also creative. As part of my research I read through 14 odd pages of one of the Adult Content threads and am pretty amazed at how Linden government runs. Naturally I understand Linden Labs make profit, and I assume most people are cool with that.

Debate on realism and fantasy aside, the large amount of money and time of many residents are real life investments in my eyes. I read some serious concerns from people. Huge fiscal investment and work loads to get a business up and going. For a a lot of people this is actual real life income (part or whole).

Linden governments repetitive (including the Open Land mess) usurping it's investors is way out of line. It is costly in stress dollars and time for all. It could possibly be deemed as criminal or near criminal in real life financial real estate situations. I think as any investor, LL should wear it's own mistakes (losses) as we all do. In most companies some parts run at a loss. Errors in OS or Teen grids should be run as losses for LL not us. It seems so unstable, invest and hope they don't change their mind.

So I am asking all, is there a resident run SL Union, is there any real life legal representation for these land owners and do investors and or residents deserve a vote in such issues?

Is it Friday again?

Pep (or maybe the 19th Century?)

PS Thanks for the laughs; if you actually meant it I'll laugh even more.

Hi again,

I take it, speaking in sarcasm and with a few thousand posts under your belt, you don't think there's any chance for any concepts like these?

I'm pretty new, but yep, it's a genuine question I am asking, the "*I* am adult content" group looks like they are trying to take a stand...

Ugh, Unions.

No.

No.

and No.

You want to have a vote? Buy LL stock when they go public.

The biggest in-world group in SL seems to be one called 'The Largest and Most Pointless Group, Ever'. So, however good the idea of a residents' union might be, it would face an uphill struggle!

Just write Phil Linden and M a very strongly worded IM.

"Sir!
I wish to protest most strongly about everything"


That'll teach 'em

I have absolutely, repeat absolutely no desire whatsoever to get involved in such a thing. This is a virtual world. The rules are flexible. It is loose here. If you need security, zoning, strict enforcement of rules and laws then SL is not for you, in my opinion. My strong personal feeling is you vote with your feet. Having been employed in RL by a fortune 10 company for many years, and now working in a private, family owned business, I've seen both sides. All you are (in my opinion) entitled to from LL is a possible refund of your annual premium membership fee. Beyond that, I think that your redress for any wrong is in the court system in the Real World, not here!!!!! Please!!!! The thoughts expressed herein are solely those of my warped little mind and do not reflect the opinions of my RL conciousness. Jackie.

Oh, and as Martin Blanke put it so well..."Is this union going to have meetings?" answer: "yes" Reply: "No meetings" and the shootout continued from there. Jackie.

Linden Lab is a privately held company, not a participative government. They do not have any legal reason to respond to a "Union" of residents.

In the real world, Trade Unions use existing laws and lobby governments for new laws to enforce or influence desired behavior by employers. Residents in a privately run, internationally distributed virtual world have no "Higher authority" to appeal to for "Fair treatment". Try asking your congressman or other government representative to pass a new law relating to what a game company can allow in a game. They won't give you any serious consideration. The laws in the real world don't account for virtual worlds and in-world "play money".

While it can certainly be argued that Residents invest huge amounts of their own time and money in SL, and that Linden Lab dercrees have reduced the value of that "investment", the average lawmaker would see no difference between that and some kid who spends all day, every day, in the game arcades, playing some video game while paying a steady stream of quarters. If he always loses, and wasted his money foolishly, should the lawmaker care?

The reason there isn't such a thing, is because the interests of the residents are too varied to be put under any one sort of union.

People do have a vote. One dollar, one vote. It's capitalism. If every free user had a vote, I wonder what such a 'democracy' would do with the results of my hard won efforts here.

It would be in most resident's interest to vote to take a piece of everything I've worked so hard to build up. At least for Linden Research, there are some clear consequences if they wipe me out.

For the hordes who never put one dime into the platform, there are very few consequences and a huge financial upside. Vote for a tragedy of the commons, loot anyone who has done well here, then go play World of Warcraft once the party is over.

Rereading the OP...don't read anything in to the *I* Am Adult Content crowd that isn't there. I can guarantee you that there is very little that we agree on amongst ourselves except that we don't want Adult Content segregated. For some, it's the impact on their business, for some of us, we don't want the children hanging around and getting in the way, for others, who knows?

I also noted that you "have read" about concerns. Do you have any personal concerns or are you speaking hypothetically? Just curious...Jackie.

Search groups for "Union" there are plenty around, they don't really have any muscle but if you get one up and running with the right members you'll be listened to.

The United Sailing Sims aren't exactly a union but they got themselves a good deal from Linden Lab over their sims being moved, so there is something to be said for collective bargaining.

However you do not deserve a vote on Linden Lab policy, that's not how unions work anyway, they vote amongst themselves on proposals.

The only way to voice so the Lab will listen with with money.. or the lack of it.. they wont care what ya have to say any other way.

this is why we need a man like Jimmy Hoffa..
A man not afraid to stand up and take action..
A man not Afraid to get in there and fight along side those members..
a man not afraid to try..

Everyone give a warm welcome..i give you Jimmy Hoffa!!!!
*Waits a second clapping*


Yes Here Comes JIMMY HOFFA!!!!
*Waits a second*

he must not have heard his cue..

YES JIMMY HOFFA EVERYONE!!!

*/me covers the mic leaning t0 the side of the stage whispering loudly*Where the heck is Jimmy??!!

*someone walks slowly out from the side of the stage to whisper in Ceka's ear*
PSS PSS PSS PSS Wha WhaWHA wHAAA PSS PSS PSS PSS



Sorry it seems i made a mistake..

Lets give a great round of applause for MEL GIBSON EVERYONE!!!

There is no government here. They are a business and can choose to run that business the way they want to.

SL Union... Probably as meaningful as SL Police. (^_^)

We're fiddling around on LL's private lawn. Might as well be careful not to muss up the grass or they'll boot us. (^_^)y

Hi again,

Well thanks for the feedback. It's clear people dislike the idea of unions and votes and that's fine, it makes sense when I read some of the reasoning too. I am still interested in what kind of power we have over our SL businesses and freedoms.

Innotgoingsideways: I kinda figure if I buy some land it's not the Lindens playground land anymore it's mine, if I buy it as one thing, I should be reasonably able to expect it to stay as such.

LittleMe: They are a business, true and yes they can do as they want. But as is the nature of life, soon other similar games will open up claiming to have it better sorted, businesses need to compete. We are their SL.

Ciaran: That's really good to hear.

Jackie: I am interested in both, the future of the people who are worried and mine if I go ahead and buy create something of worth, which I know I could get right into.

Desmond: I can see what you mean, your post makes a lot of sense.

Ceera: Your most probably right about the legal side.
I respect the right to treat it as play money for sure, we all need our R&R, but also people are here trying to make real money, that too is valid and does separate it from most other games around so far. I think Entropia has real money but never more than a few cents. Some plots in SL are hundreds of dollars. A few people even generate their whole income from this game.

Anyway, thank you all again, it was interesting to see the responses and good luck in your (ad)ventures.

You're quite welcome...good luck. Just so you know, to some of us this in a lot more than a game. We have formed real relationships and friendship here, and what makes it special is that there is a genuine person behind the avatars. I wish you well. Jackie

A common misconception. It was more prevalent when the front page of the web site once said "Own Virtual Land". We're all pretty burned out, arguing about that. (forgive me for speaking on behalf of others)

Sadly, you're mistaken. You didn't "buy" anything. You contracted a limited license of use for a fee and still have to accept their terms for how you utilize their property. (^_^)

Nobody is against any concept of unions. We just know for a fact it's impossible because we're on LL's private property here and what they say goes. Some day, there may be valid competition for their service and they would have more reason to consider resident needs for the sake of concurrency, but until then, them's the breaks. (^_^)y

SL isn't public space, it is owned and operated by LL. They allow us to use it, and many pay a fee for the service. They should be the only people "governing" SL, one a job that they sadly are horrible at. Like Immy said, we don't buy anything more than server space, and even then it really is a lease. There is nothing to own.

Resident governments have been discussed many times, and I am not in favor of them on an SL wide scale. SL is made up of many people from dofferent countries, cultures and lifestyles. We all come here with different needs, and objectives for using the program. Your views on what SL should be will be different than mine, and neither is any less valid than the other. It would be impossible to find any form of government that would accomodate all the different philosophies.And how would these "governors" be elected or appointed. And who would oversee them. I personally wouldn't want to see groups of residents with broad powers over others, that's LL's place. If rwidents in individual sims wish to and together and confederate that's fine. That's their choice. But SL as a whole, no thanks.

I looked in groups and there is a residents' union for mainland dwellers - it has about 3 members!

wow their growth went from 50% last year to 1/3 this year..by this time next year we'll need an arm and a leg to get in there

There is no union, but there is a Cartel. Be afraid, be very afraid.