closed for maintenance...

There's nowt wrong with the dress, it's fetching in red...wait it's not a dress! I've already sent them the code It's not like they don't know how to do it.

/me saves the admission that it is a dress and that you have had to correct yourself. Still, a dress and gauntlets is fairly unusual.

It's a gown! A magic gown at that, made of magic stuff!

Yep can imagine campbot goldfarmers:
"Linden Labs pay me to recieve a 24/7 service, so I should be paid compensation for downtime rhat I can't log my 100 bots in.............."

I thought it was 24 hours.

Here's the philosophy: As long as the grid is up, to ANYBODY, whether or not it is working right, then it's fine. Doesn't matter if you can't get in.

Only if the grid actually goes down, to everybody, for 24 hours, is it considered a disruption in service.

That way, they never have to pay anyone for services not rendered.

If someone else is in SL at all, even if they are just standing there unable to move, then it's cool.

coco

No can do.

Here's the philosophy (hehe, I feel like a broken record today, and a cynical one): SL should be FREE to EVERYONE in every corner of the world, assuming they have a computer and a broadband internet connection. (Really, that is one of Philip's guilding principles.)

The costs of providing this FREE SL TO EVERYONE is born on the shoulders of those wanting to own land.

Those wanting to own land, however, have no right to priority to actually get in SL over, say, no-payment-info-on-file bots.

It is the duty of those paying for SL to provide the money so that EVERYBODY and EVERYBOTTY in every corner of the world can be in SL for free.

But that doesn't mean those paying for SL will necessarily be able to get in SL, because that would be discrimination, see.

coco

In May and June SL added about 5000 private islands, according to the economic stats page. Think about that for a minute. Thats $5 million in setup fees, and $1.5 million a month in tier. You would think that would pay for a bigger database cluster. It also means 5000 more sims fetching stuff from the databases. So it could well be the added load has ramped up faster than they can install the back end stuff to support it.

ya i am not really up on any of that stuff..more of just a loose guess heheheh
i just log in here and there now and if i can't get in it's not that big a deal to me..i understand a lot have very important things they are doing in there and i feel for them..
after reading a few threads i see just how much something like this hurts them..
$0.33 is nothing compared to what some may lose..
i guess it was sort of my way of saying even if they did give us a day back it wouldn't phase the loss some had..
i hope things get better for people soon..

/me knows shouldnt post in these but eh cant help it


Well I am personally starting to see certain aspects from both sides of the fence. I have payment info on file, am I premium no, I personally think if more was offered I would go that route, but lets say I already was, Would I be demanding refunds no, why should I get a refund for when there systems crash? Would I demand to be let in or else, nope. PIOF should be allowed in just like premium members. THe NPIOF are the ones they do need to block at high load times.


These things tend to happen with a platform that is live 24/7. You can never make a database happy that runs like there's do. sadly we can beat this over the head a million times and come back to the same answer. not going to happen with logins. But oh yes get rid of the bots. I go fly in a sim and see at a max of 75 in a box wth is that about, of thats right traffik. Um can we do away with all traffic? please lol ok I am ranting and mixing my words. have fun everybody

Peace Teh Moester

Block NPOIF during high loads.

That is all.

well hopefully soon those kind of bots will be rendered useless when the places search and pop list go away..i do hope they add a map function to the new search though..i just like to see if i am going into a lag fest or a dead zone before i go there but i would gladly wait for that function if it would get the new search going faster hehehe

not going to happen, if it did... all the bot farmer's need to do is link the bots to a single pay pal account...

NPIOF is actually the majority of the user base iirc. they also are the number one renters of land, they do get lindens and spend them so a major part of the economy.

I don't care. If the system is overloaded, they have to stop someone from logging in. NPOIF should be first on the list. Because when the system is overloaded, even if they are "a major part of the economy" they can't buy anything anyway.

no payment info on file spends more than payment info on file in sl?
i thought basic members were the top ones

I see more NPIOF when I wander than basic/premium.

I know they don't get the avatars and clothing they were wearing from freebie places.

Many of the ones I know personally use the SLX route rather than the lindenX because it seems to be better rates and they can use a paypal account without linking it to a bank account. Plus there are no trade limits on them.

you also have to consider those full perm shops out there that are selling originals for 1/16 the price as well..i know not everyone is using those places or that every full perm place does that but it has to be appealing to a lot of NPIOF accounts..
campers can afford to get nice things there..

Oh I did, many of the ones I deal with are fellow furs.

And trust me, furry avatars don't normally show up there.

Plus many of the outfits were solange, bare rose, and HCT stuff.

So kinda hard to find them in the full perm shops.

i figured as much thats why i made sure not to include everyone..i know there are people that don't use those places and like i said not all of the full perm places are dealing with black market items..

it would be nice just out of curiosity to see what the actual numbers were on which account types do what..
although i could see some classes feeling superior in a way if they had seen they were pulling more of the weight..
just out of curiosity it would be nice to catch a quick glance lol

You're forgetting that preventing logins only prevents people from logging in. Most of those who are already in, stay in. So filtering out NPIOF from logging in, for the brief periods when it happens, won't impact the economy at all.

ooo! Good idea. JIRA that and I'll vote for it. Even if its not a map, a simple count of how many on destination sim at the moment will do.

I don't doubt your first statement, to a degree, but I certainly doubt the next two.

1) "Majority of the user base"

NPIOF no doubt accounts for the majority of these millions of residents we supposedly have. Whether or not they account for the majority of persons who are actually in SL on a regular basis (as opposed to those who sign up, then go away; not to mention unimportant and mostly unused alts) I don't know, but I suppose it is plausible.

Where is your statistic for that?

Another issue is how many of the NPIOF's are bots. (Tangential to that, how much of the entire user population are bots?) Which brings us directly to one issue: Should bots be assured equal priority in getting in when SL is too crowded?

2) "They are the number one renters of land."

Where do you get this statistic? Do most renters of land pay their rent directly with actual money to the landlord? As opposed to those who pay them with Lindens?

I don't doubt that many pay their Landlords with real money. I would just like to see statistics that most do.

3) "They do get Lindens and spend them so a major part of the economy."

So, these NPIOF's are spending lots of money, but most of them get their money through means other than the Lindex?

Where are the statistics for that?

I find that pretty hard to swallow. I know many get their money through means other than Lindex. (And even so, most of those could become PIOF if they felt the need, and still continue to get their Lindens elsewhere.) But most?

And NPIOF's are a major part of the economy? How major? I'm willing to be shown statistics.

But I don't believe any such statistics exist. I believe the statements about NPIOF's above are just things that get stated, over and over, without basis, in the hopes that people will believe them.

-----

This notion that NPIOF's are practically the backbone of the economy is pretty fanciful, in my opinion, and I'm getting tired of hearing it stated as if it were fact.

I think most people probably get their Lindens through Lindex. I believe most (not all, but most) NPIOF's probably spend few if any Lindens.

I simply don't believe that restricting log-ins such that NPIOF's would be the last to get in would (a) have any noticeable effect on the economy whatsoever, or (b) irritate the NPIOF's much, either, since most of them probably have pretty good common sense.

How many NPIOF's are actually going to stand up and complain that people who have paid to get in are getting priority at log-in during crowded or problematic times? Very few, I imagine. Most people are pretty fair-minded.

And you know what - I'm starting to think that, since most NPIOF's do have common sense and would understand why they might not be let in earlier - there is probably some reason for SOME of these people (not necessarily the OP) making all the constant statements about how the NPIOF's are practically the backbone of the whole economy.

Not to mention the loud threats some have posted to boycott the business of anyone who dares state they believe NPOIF's should be the last to get in.

So, what would be that reason? Well, it could well be that SOME of those people have an extremely vested interest in their NPIOF's. Multiple. Their multiple anonymous NPIOF's. In getting them on, keeping them on, and getting them right back in should they crash.

And guess who those people might be?

cococatchesonfinally

1 - alts of a piof account funded through the main.
2 - many were unable to use the lindenx system due to the LL verification (for about 9 months I was using SLX to get my lindens because LL would not accept my cards or paypal account; I know many that got tired of trying and simply use SLX)
3 - mates/friends of a piof where they share a pool much like in the case of 1
4 - Many find ways to generate income in world (dj, dancer, hosts, builders, artists) to fund themselves (lack of or inability to spend real world cash on buying lindens)

Edit: as for the bot farms, all they will do is simply link the bots to a secondary card/paypall account if not their main.

Blocking NPIOF logins is only going to stop real people logging in the Bots and 23/7 campers are already inworld.
What we need is to remove unverified accounts period. Every account must have proof of linkage to a RL person by some means rather than the current system which allows infinate anomous alts.
Bot farmers linking their accounts to one Paypal will allow LL to identify them and limit their alts available.

Preventing unlimited alts certainly is a good thing. However, it seems they do not want to do that. On the other hand, botfarming can pretty well be fought in other ways, if we can find them Lindens can. They just don't want to.

As I stated before I do not mind bots. But, I do mind the fact I cannot login to a system I pay for, while people that do not pay for it are logged in. Whiched happened to me yesterday. So as soon as they think the load becomes too high, they should put paying customers in front of the line. Quite simple.

Has got nothing to do with NPIOF avatars, simple has to do with wether you are premium or not. Premiums pay Linden Labs to a service, so they are entitled to a login as long as the system is running. Wether someone is basic and buys tons of lindens each month is irrelevant: They do not pay for their account, ergo they are free members. Free members go after paying members.

Just one more thing: the 60K problem is not new. We see this number for months now. It is about time that LL admits that 60K is the maximum amount of users they can cope with, or that they improve the system by buying some new hardware/developing new routines. This is taking way too long.

premium means you pay for the ability to own land and to get more support options than a free account.

Just like estate owners get concierge service